Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

lowdowner

Senior Member
I've never heard of Meshuggah before but someone on here was talking about learning some drum stuff from their tracks so I hunted them down on Youtube.

After a while I came across this cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fwx5vXRXk5U

and it just makes my attempts to learn seem pretty trivial.

I *know* learning to play is a slow process with lots of practice, but for goodness sakes (that phrase was edited for on-line family friendliness) how the hell do I think I could ever even approach that?

Maybe I should go back to playing something easy like Beethoven sonatas on the kazoo? :(
 
99% of the forum members seem trivial if you compare them to certain drummers.
But what's the point doing so? Compared to some drummers I shouldn't have ever even started drumming. But I did - and it's fun regardless of technical level.

Maybe there's things that you can do so much better than Troy Wright. Maybe he would be extremely envious of your skills in some other fields outside drumming but he doesn't know what you're good at and you don't know what he sucks at. IMO the more you invest in certain areas (music, sports, private life, education, whatever) the less time/energy/efforts you have for all the other activities and life chores. So in the end it all balances out.

About 2 years ago I found an electric guitarist who set a new world record, playing the Flight of the Humblebee @ 380 bpm (16th - each note picked)!! I could have imagined playing that piece at maybe 250 bpm or slightly more, but that's super fast already. And 380 was waaaay faster than I ever imagined what the human body could do even if you practiced like a madman for your whole life. Now just a few days ago I discovered another guy that did... 600!! It's unbelievable. I can't believe it. My eyes saw it, my brain ignored it. It just can't be! So how trivial are 99.9999% of this planet's guitarist playing polulation compared to this player?

Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cGTsX3O-2E

Did this impact my music activities? No. Yes, there's some crazy dudes out there. So what? ;-)
 
Your drumming could never be trivial because there's no one else in the world that can play drums like you. Your sound, your touch and your expression are totally unique. The rest is just practice, a lot of it, now you have to realize that it takes TIME, but believe me, if you put in the hours, you will get results.
 
Rather than get depressed that you can't play their stuff, enjoy and study their music. They're the most innovative band of recent times in my opinion and so you should be excited that they've pioneered a genre and opened up a world of things for you to learn. That was my reaction some 10 years ago and I still feel the same.

Listen in and take what you want from it - no need to get all obsessed about learning the parts note for note.
 
So if you see someone who's better at particular activity the best thing is to just quit because you'll never be as good as them? Didn't think so (but thanks for posting the link- you've made me depressed as well)!
 
I'm just not seeing what is causing the soul searching. It's not like you were a fan of this band, and the guy is blowing you out of the water at your own game. What I see is that somebody made a video of himself playing somebody else's drum parts along with a record, and did a pretty good job of it. I'm not knocking him, but on a scale of musical accomplishment, this falls a couple of notches below, say, learning a Musser etude on the marimba. It's not easy, but it doesn't take any special talent beyond the ability to practice a lot, and hundreds of non-genius college students do it every year.

You can literally do exactly what this guy does, if you want to.
 
It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.
 
It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.

That's really interesting. My 'speciality' (as such as it is) has always revolved around baroque music which is very structurally 'straight' with respect to the bar lines and the rhythm.

This 'pulling and pushing' of the rhythm is amazing to listen to....
 
Comparing yourself to others....should be avoided. There's no point in it. Learning what others have done, that's different. But don't down yourself because you can't do what another does. Find out what you do best and focus there. Unless what you do best is comparing yourself to others, then don't focus there. Nothing good can come out of that. Be the best YOU that you can.
 
this falls a couple of notches below, say, learning a Musser etude on the marimba. It's not easy, but it doesn't take any special talent beyond the ability to practice a lot, and hundreds of non-genius college students do it every year.

Troy is not simply a cover-er. IMO he elevates the material- comparing the original version of CAFO to his cover of it, for example, shows how ridiculously groovy he is (once again, my opinion).

That said, don't be discouraged by this. Be inspired by it. Mountain climbers don't look at big mountains and say "woah, that's too tall". They say "I'm going to climb up there".
Climb up there.
 
Why not strive to improve yourself and be a better player. No matter a drummer's skill level, there's always something new or more difficult to learn.

If you want to play some Meshuggah, try the song Demiurge (also on Koloss). The first 2/3 aren't too hard and you feel like a god playing it. Have fun!
 
If you want to play some Meshuggah, try the song Demiurge (also on Koloss). The first 2/3 aren't too hard and you feel like a god playing it. Have fun!

Behind The Sun also has a pretty simple opening. Of course, these are stepping stones. Maybe one day you can play The Last Vigil, which Tomas really overplayed the heck out of- I have no idea how that came out of the studio!
 
Well, unless your plan is to play in a Meshuggah cover band, does it matter?

At one point in life, I wanted to be Mr Super Versatile with amazing chops. Then at 22, reality set in that no one was ever going to mention me in the same sentence as Bozzio or any other drum god.

But I thought to myself, you know what? It's OK. I can still be in bands. I can still play music that can be heard on the radio. Few bands in this world really want a drummer who can play very complex material.

And so I went out and did just that. Still joined bands, still gigged, played on albums, and have even heard myself on the radio a few times.
 
That's really interesting. My 'speciality' (as such as it is) has always revolved around baroque music which is very structurally 'straight' with respect to the bar lines and the rhythm.

This 'pulling and pushing' of the rhythm is amazing to listen to....

This is why you feel so overwhelmed; you're seriously listening to syncopated rhythms and over-the-bar-line phrasing for what may be the first time in your life! It's not surprising you're feeling so defeated, since it's more or less another musical universe to you at this point.

So start playing music and exercises that contain rhythmic syncopation, in order to acclimate your mind and limbs. Most of us start by playing covers with our friends, school band programs, and lessons on other instruments, in addition to proper drumset training. If most of your experience involves playing baroque music (by the way, how did THAT happen???), then playing almost any rock music from the last 50 years will be informative!

Listen to and learn from heavy and influential bands from the last few decades (Metallica, Pantera, Slayer, etc.), where the music was not quite so complicated or technically driven.
 
This is why you feel so overwhelmed; you're seriously listening to syncopated rhythms and over-the-bar-line phrasing for what may be the first time in your life! It's not surprising you're feeling so defeated, since it's more or less another musical universe to you at this point.

And you're not alone - speaking as another baroque lover (strictly a listener though, not a player owing to a total absence of talent).

I enjoyed the link very much, it's a genre I have hardly encountered, but the drumming is SO exciting!
 
And you're not alone - speaking as another baroque lover (strictly a listener though, not a player owing to a total absence of talent).

I enjoyed the link very much, it's a genre I have hardly encountered, but the drumming is SO exciting!

Exactly - really mind blowing rythm (and drumming) :)
 
Gotta love Haake, the drummer for Meshuggah.

Read an interview with him where he said a couple of surprising things: first, the drum parts for Obzen album were all programmed on a computer by the giutarist and then he learned them from the programmed version. Second, it took him about 6 months to get the drum part down for Bleed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc.

That stuff ain't easy, though I think it is possible for anyone with enough thought and practice.
 
Well, unless your plan is to play in a Meshuggah cover band, does it matter?

At one point in life, I wanted to be Mr Super Versatile with amazing chops. Then at 22, reality set in that no one was ever going to mention me in the same sentence as Bozzio or any other drum god.

But I thought to myself, you know what? It's OK. I can still be in bands. I can still play music that can be heard on the radio. Few bands in this world really want a drummer who can play very complex material.

And so I went out and did just that. Still joined bands, still gigged, played on albums, and have even heard myself on the radio a few times.

I tend to agree with DED

I look at it like this, if Meshuggah ever ring me up and ask me to be their drummer (they won't) I might have a go at learning the drum parts. If it turns out I can't play them because they are way above my ability (which they are) I will just tell the band to ask someone else. But until that day comes (which is never) I can't see the point in stressing about not being able to play a particular drum part.

That guy in the video clip has worked really hard to be able to do that, and he does it really well, but what is the point? When will he ever play that again? Work really hard at doing something new, by that I mean somethng that is original, finding your own style, or at the very least something you can use. Learn and understand the style for sure but spend months practicing a song that you will never play with a band? I'm not sure I get that. That's not to say that I see no point in learning new stuff, just that I see little point in learning whole songs that I am unlikely to ever use.

I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
 
I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view

Whether it's popular or not, it's realistic.

Towards the OP: I love sitting in my garage and trying to figure out something polyrhythmic and complex, but the weirdest time signature I usually play in any band here in town is usually 6/8. Not to say that there's not a place or a market for complex stylings, but to play them just to play them, and then get bummed because you're not able to play them *yet* is not productive.

If there's one thing life has continually taught me, it's that you can never be the best at anything; you can only be the very best that you can be at something. And that takes work, patience, practice, and perseverance. Comparing yourself to Troy Wright, or any drummer for that matter, is not going to do anything for you. He's got mad chops at that Meshuggah stuff, but at least in my local market, he would starve for his art, because around here it's got to be danceable to make money.

Goes back to the whole chops vs. groove thing, the whole genre discussion too. We could look at this can of worms all day. Bottom line: Should you quit because this guy is "better" than you? No. Be the best you that you can be. And that should be plenty for anyone.
 
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