Update on Wac'd Drums

Gwaco, sorry if you've already answered this but I've looked this over a couple times and can't find exactly how you tune the reso head...
Luis, hope you don't mind if I use your question to back up Gary's design principal, & Gary, please feel free to shoot this apart if I'm on the wrong track.

The very idea of a free floating design is to maximise both the sustain from the shell, & it's contribution to the overall sound. When tuning any drum for maximum sustain, you tune the batter & reso heads to exactly the same pitch. This allows both heads to resonate in sympathy with each other, & produces a clear fundamental that is picked up by the shell.

On Gary's design, the batter & reso heads are always tuned the same. If you're the kind of player who'd get benefit from a free floating drum, that's how you'd tune anyhow. Even if you didn't want maximum sustain from your drums (e.g. you use a muffled head type) the principal still has the benefit of greatly enhancing the shell's contribution to the sound. The shell is free to resonate, without being muted by the attachment of hardware. Think of it as a logical extension to the rims principal. If you have an old school drum, with the tom bracket attached to the shell, try this simple test. Hit the drum whilst it's mounted on it's tom holder, then do the same when off it's tom holder & held in your hand by the hoop. You should notice a difference. Now imagine that difference, but multiplied several times over, when you remove all the hardware from the shell. Another home test if you're not convinced, take your heads, hoops, & screws off the drum. Hold the shell between your thumb & finger near the edge, & tap the outside of the shell with your other hand. Now repeat that test with all the lugs off the shell, & hear that shell sing.

Hope this helps a bit, Andy.

P.S. Gary, good move on the extra thread depth for the kick lugs. With low head tensions, that will certainly help with tuning retention.
 
i would love to sit behind a kit with this lug system! as a drum builder myself, seeing these get put on the market could be a very exciting thing
 
Man, You had me sweating !
Why would you be worried about what I thought?

You have designed and tested a product.
You obtained a patent.
You have shown us a video of the product in action and it was obvious that the drums sounded good in the video.
You answered all of our questions.
You answered mine and I now understand.
A long time board member is going to use the lugs on one of his snare drums.
You are a board member who has contributed many posts here.

You are not a one time poster who is spamming us and giving us vague information
about an ill conceived idea that doesn't work.

I was joking when I posted the Drum Tone thread link.
I hope that you didn't get the wrong idea.
 
Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?

Also, in the case of snares, the thinner reso head would stretch more than the batter head, resulting in a higher tension on the reso compared to the batter (if my logic is correct). Is this the case? Same issue w/ 2 ply batters and single ply resos I would guess.

Can you explain to me something that will disspell any doubts?
Again I apologize for the challenges.
 
Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?

Curious of this too Larry, I spent some time looking at other similar designs. I found most just don't take this into consideration, and those that do, (imo), somewhat defeat the purpose by having a pre-tensiond snare side before the shell is even added to the equation. For what the video is worth that Gary posted, they sound like I'd at least be open to the concept of checking it out.


Jer - I love you ! you just created another brainstorming session ! I now have another prototype to come up with , alittle different than your pic , but it ignited the idea !
Maybe i'll call it the JER-e-RIG !

Ha! Glad to inspire. While trying to work out a way to retract the legs on my first idea, I thought of this too, allowing for more traditional spurs to be used:

photo-3.jpg


Also, notched kick drum hoops (for the claws to sit in) to ensure equal distance from each other?
 
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Larry , Thanks for being honest ! I know that these lugs or method of tuning will not apeal to everyone. In fact had the roles been reversed i would be skepical too! No worrys here.
But to address your concerns ,do you not tune your snare side head tighter than your batterhead anyways ? So yes your logic is 100% dead on , but its something you do anyways.
So far we have used different thicknesses on the toms and the result has been the same. When we start filming some videos we will be doing a lot of different combinations of heads and thicknesses and doing the same with an equivalent standard lugged tom and snare. A couple of the things that were first noticed on the red kit in the videos/and pics was the increased dynamic range and the absence of annoying overtones.
Plus there is the ease of tuning the drum. As G.D. had eluded to , when you start tuning the drum you find that the tension across the head becomes nearly identical at all the tension points even when the lugs are not tensioned evenly.
Larry its MY job to prove to you that it works and in due time i hope that i am able to do that !
Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?

Also, in the case of snares, the thinner reso head would stretch more than the batter head, resulting in a higher tension on the reso compared to the batter (if my logic is correct). Is this the case? Same issue w/ 2 ply batters and single ply resos I would guess.

Can you explain to me something that will disspell any doubts?
Again I apologize for the challenges.
 
I met Gary Wednesday night and got my Steambent snare back and I have to tell you the drum sounds great. I normally like my snare side head tight and my batter heads very close to tight also. I sat down and played the drum at the music store and it sounded ok but I told Gary that the room there was huge with a very high ceiling, and I would wait until I got it back home to my drum room to determine it's true sound. Well I have to tell you I was surprised. It sounds the same now as it did before removing the tube lugs and putting on the Wac'd lugs. I could then turn one lug only and de-tune the drum to a lower, fatter sound and again it was fine. The tone at each lug was the same or very very close when tapped abut an inch away with a stick. At this point I am completely satisfied. I will make one more test, and that is to add a die cast hoop to the batter, and see if it sounds OK at that point. I will post my further findings on this post.
 
Just a small update, but first I want to thank everyone that gives Jennifer support and helpful criticism.

As far as what is happening with me and Wac'd Drums , I have been having quite a few ups and downs over the last two months. My enthusiasm is still running high but some reality has hit. The investor and partner I had needed to back out due to his immediate work obligations. So that meant I also lost my start up capitol.But I still have managed to get a number of snare sets out to some members here for their feedback and results.

So once again I am behind the barrel so to speak on getting things fully operational, but in due time I'm sure it will happen. I actually have a meeting next week with another possible investor, so wish me luck.

In the mean time I have been very busy continually taking things from the drawing board and getting them into the prototype stage. The Bass Station has gone from drawings to being roadtested as we speak. The results have been nothing short of spectacular. I will get more indepth with it once we get some road time in with it. Also the prototype tom holder that will work with the lugs is proving to be a great addition to the lugs.

I invite everyone here to check out my Facebook page and look under the product photos and take a look , and while your there hit me up ! I would love for everyone on this board to follow me along with this.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/

More to come...
 
Just a small update, but first I want to thank everyone that gives Jennifer support and helpful criticism.

As far as what is happening with me and Wac'd Drums , I have been having quite a few ups and downs over the last two months. My enthusiasm is still running high but some reality has hit. The investor and partner I had needed to back out due to his immediate work obligations. So that meant I also lost my start up capitol.But I still have managed to get a number of snare sets out to some members here for their feedback and results.

So once again I am behind the barrel so to speak on getting things fully operational, but in due time I'm sure it will happen. I actually have a meeting next week with another possible investor, so wish me luck.

In the mean time I have been very busy continually taking things from the drawing board and getting them into the prototype stage. The Bass Station has gone from drawings to being roadtested as we speak. The results have been nothing short of spectacular. I will get more indepth with it once we get some road time in with it. Also the prototype tom holder that will work with the lugs is proving to be a great addition to the lugs.

I invite everyone here to check out my Facebook page and look under the product photos and take a look , and while your there hit me up ! I would love for everyone on this board to follow me along with this.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/

More to come...

Let me tell you, I want some of these lugs! They look fantastic! And your link to your facebook page is broken, just thought I'd let you know.
 
I spoke with the Main Wacko and little Miss Wacko at a drum Clinic last night and he showed me some photos of his latest efforts and I have to say I am impressed. He is so close to offering a complete lug, tom, bass drum system. I have tested the lugs on my 7.5 inch drum and will now try on the 5.5 I have. In my last post I mentioned trying the lugs with a die cast hoop as well and did, but I really didn't notice too much difference between that and the triple flange hoops. I'm sure down the road Gary will have his own hoops to go along with lugs, tom mounts, and the bass drum cradle.
 
Thanks Luke , I will get that fixed !

It was great to see you again John! Thanks for the vote of confidence, much appreciated!
Heck of a clinic wasn't it ?

edit; Luke I just tried it again and it worked, but I'm not sure if it links it because its on my computer or not!

edit , edit : O.k. try this and let me know if it links - http://www.facebook.com/people/Wacd-Drums/100002092039436
 
Thanks Luke , I will get that fixed !

It was great to see you again John! Thanks for the vote of confidence, much appreciated!
Heck of a clinic wasn't it ?

edit; Luke I just tried it again and it worked, but I'm not sure if it links it because its on my computer or not!

edit , edit : O.k. try this and let me know if it links - http://www.facebook.com/people/Wacd-Drums/100002092039436

That link works for me, I just added you! I think you have the perfect solution for my current setup, I've got a set of carbon fiber tubs made by Monolith, back when they were still around. I want a free-floating lug setup on my toms, and I think yours are brilliant!
 
That link works for me, I just added you! I think you have the perfect solution for my current setup, I've got a set of carbon fiber tubs made by Monolith, back when they were still around. I want a free-floating lug setup on my toms, and I think yours are brilliant!
Luke , I got your add, Thanks ! As I had said in my previous post I would be having a meeting with another investor and that meeting was today.

I'm happy to report that it went very well and as soon as we get all the i's dotted and the t's crossed we will be well on our way to getting things moving at a pretty good pace. The partnership is with one of the machineshops that has been making some of my parts already so he is already familiar with everything. I will keep you posted and hopefully those interested in the lugs will be able to purchase them very soon !

Thanks
Gary
 
The lug system is aesthetically nice and clean, but I am very curious how well people like drums that don't allow independent tuning top to bottom. Independent tuning of each head is critical for getting versatility from a drum.

In any case, I wish the best of success for you.
 
I like my snares cranked top and bottom and with these lugs it is possible. Remember one thing. The typical snare side head is only 3 mil thick while most batters are 7, 10, 12 or more. The snare side or reso head will tend to tighten faster than the batter and for me this works fine. Also most people use thinner resos on their toms than they do batters so the same effect applies. Even if you want to tune both heads to the same pitch it can be done. Because of the lug mechanics, if you wish to detune your snare from crack to thud you can do it with one lug. I have done this on three drums. Hip hop sound to old Billy Joel fat snare in seconds and the other parts of the head will stay in tune. You can tap at each lug and get the same tone. I will be glad to make another video to show how this works.
 
I have the drum apart right now but will get it back together in a day or two and film a bit. Actually video, I have no film. How old am I? Wow.
 
this is not the best video. A little grainy and the sound waivers but I think you will get the idea that these lugs will allow you to change the tune of your drums by turning one lug and keeping the entire drum head in tune. Each tap at the lugs will produce the same tone. I missed a few taps and hit closer to the rim but you can hear the tones. The sound is from a small camera, but if you listen closely you can hear the high pitched sound after the sticks hit the drum. I wish I had better equipment for Gary's sake. Anyway here is the video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtK0fEiLbCs
 
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