Robert Smith Of The Cure Hates Remo Heads

What part of "I never liked the cure" is 'slamming' The Cure?
Sure, it wasn't the most constructive post, but I was expressing myself in a non-offensive manner....

Fair enough mate! XXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
Berumuda,
How often do you change your heads? Do you start all live shows on brand new heads or do you only change heads when you start to notice they worn past where you like themto be?

On tour, I change my Evans tom & snare batters every 4-6 shows, which is the range in which they start choking (I'm a hard hitter.) In town, where I play more moderately, batters will last 20 gigs or more.

I should mention that durability was never an issue for me with Remo, rather it was the chronic inconsistency of their Pinstripes and Emperors that caused me to terminate my 16-year Remo endorsement and never use a Remo head again. Only when I could hand-pick Remo heads did I have a chance at getting my 3 toms to sound good. Conversely, the QC at Evans is excellent, I never have to worry about testing a head before mounting it, and I've never had an Evans head that didn't sound like it was supposed to.

Props to Aquarian too, I tried their heads as well in 2000 when it was clear I had to make a change from Remo. I chose Evans because of the better selection for what I was playing.

Bermuda
 
On tour, I change my Evans tom & snare batters every 4-6 shows, which is the range in which they start choking (I'm a hard hitter.) In town, where I play more moderately, batters will last 20 gigs or more.

I should mention that durability was never an issue for me with Remo, rather it was the chronic inconsistency of their Pinstripes and Emperors that caused me to terminate my 16-year Remo endorsement and never use a Remo head again. Only when I could hand-pick Remo heads did I have a chance at getting my 3 toms to sound good. Conversely, the QC at Evans is excellent, I never have to worry about testing a head before mounting it, and I've never had an Evans head that didn't sound like it was supposed to.

Props to Aquarian too, I tried their heads as well in 2000 when it was clear I had to make a change from Remo. I chose Evans because of the better selection for what I was playing.

Bermuda

Thanks for the reply Bermuda, I always wonder about things like wear and tear from a pro player.
 
Bermuda,

Do you think the QC may have improved at Remo since your troubles? The heads I had problems with I had bought at a small local drum shop. They were clearly older (old boxes) and might have been from a period of poor QC at the company. Since I started buying them at Guitar Center, I've never had a bad head...all sound great and coating lasts for the life of the head.

I like Evans enough...I've just found that the G1's don't sound as good as resonant heads as the clear ambassadors do. They don't seem to have the same depth, sustain, or complexity and I'm never *as* satisfied with my toms when using them. I also haven't found a kick drum head that impresses me nearly as much as the Powerstroke 3, on the Evans side. The EMAD isn't bad...but just not as powerful, to my ears.
 
Bermuda,

Do you think the QC may have improved at Remo since your troubles?

I had wondered about that too a year or two ago, so I went to my local Sam Ash, pulled as many Pinstripes and Emperors as they had available and did tap tests. I forget the exact percentage, but I remember it jived with my personal findings in the past, and I'll be generous to Remo and say that 25% of those heads were completely dead/flappy when tested. I also looked on the underside of the heads, and discovered that for the most part, the bad heads had noticeable ripples or waves on the bottom layer, while the outer layer layed flat. The result is that the 2 layers will tune at different rates and not vibrate well together (or at all depending on the severity of the ripples.) I also learned that I could have simply looked at the heads and made a pretty accurate determination as to how they would sound.

So my answer is, no, as of about 2 years ago, I don't think there's been an improvement.

Regarding quality control, I don't have a problem with a company making a bad head now and then... just don't let them out of the factory. Further, Remo denied there were any QC issues with the 2-ply heads, even when I explained the problems I had been encountering and pointed out the irony in drummers having to hand select heads at stores, they were adamant that there were no issues.

I knew it was time to go.

Bermuda
 
I had wondered about that too a year or two ago, so I went to my local Sam Ash, pulled as many Pinstripes and Emperors as they had available and did tap tests. I forget the exact percentage, but I remember it jived with my personal findings in the past, and I'll be generous to Remo and say that 25% of those heads were completely dead/flappy when tested. I also looked on the underside of the heads, and discovered that for the most part, the bad heads had noticeable ripples or waves on the bottom layer, while the outer layer layed flat. The result is that the 2 layers will tune at different rates and not vibrate well together (or at all depending on the severity of the ripples.) I also learned that I could have simply looked at the heads and made a pretty accurate determination as to how they would sound.

So my answer is, no, as of about 2 years ago, I don't think there's been an improvement.

Regarding quality control, I don't have a problem with a company making a bad head now and then... just don't let them out of the factory. Further, Remo denied there were any QC issues with the 2-ply heads, even when I explained the problems I had been encountering and pointed out the irony in drummers having to hand select heads at stores, they were adamant that there were no issues.

I knew it was time to go.

Bermuda

Shame on them for not listening and following up on your input. The word of a professional end- user should ring through the factory floor. It probably boils down to an overlooked machine setting or something fixable like that.
 
No problems here but I am going to Evans on the toms as I like the EC series and staying with Remo for my snares. I use Evans on my bass but was thinking of trying the Remo's for a change.
 
No problems here but I am going to Evans on the toms as I like the EC series and staying with Remo for my snares.

With all due respect to Remo, I will have to say that the Ambassador, being a 1-ply, is a fairly problem-free head and truly a standard for snares. The Evans EC2 Clears are my favorite heads by far on toms, and I believe is Evans' best-selling head.

Bermuda
 
I realise I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, but it reminds me that I encountered a drum tutor at ACM (where I did a production course) who said that the reason Remo heads were the best was because they produced a note out of the box. Make of that what you will.

His one-word evaluation of Evans heads was that they were 'shite', which was obviously very helpful...
 
I've only had 1 QC problem with Remo heads, that was many years ago. Their consistent IMO.
But I don't change heads as much as the pros do.
 
His one-word evaluation of Evans heads was that they were 'shite', which was obviously very helpful...

Depending when his evaluations were made, that may not have been far from true. Unfortunately, many drummers think of Evans as the company who mad the hydrualic heads; they did, and they were. But that's old news. When D'addario bought and re-engineered the Evans line in the mid-'90s, there were many great advances in head technology, and the name quickly gained new found respect, and a leap in sales.

Most stores have a pretty even balance of Remo and Evans heads (with Aquarian and Attack being in the minority) which, based on the customer demand that drives store inventory, means that the two companies are competing strongly.

But I don't use Evans based on what's in stores or because it may be a popular alternative to Remo or the others. I genuinely prefer the heads.

Bermuda
 
Regarding quality control, I don't have a problem with a company making a bad head now and then... just don't let them out of the factory. Further, Remo denied there were any QC issues with the 2-ply heads, even when I explained the problems I had been encountering and pointed out the irony in drummers having to hand select heads at stores, they were adamant that there were no issues.

I knew it was time to go.

Bermuda

I too am on board with Bermuda. I had a rash of bad Remo heads years back, so badly that I contacted the company directly to complain. To my surprise, a QC person contacted me via telephone to talk about the problem. He asked me to send him back a head/heads that I felt was defective. I had just bought a coated emperor head where you could actually see the small perforated holes at the edge of the film sticking out of the counter hoop. I sent that one back as well as a coated emperor that was a dull thud on the tap test. He contacted me back several days later and apologized for the defective heads and sent me a bunch of new ones, all of which were in good shape.

I loved coated Remo emperors that were the WHITE film, not clear for my snare drum. I swear they sounded different and they were the 7.0 mil of mylar plies, not the 7.5 like the current vintage emperor. They changed sometime in the late 80's and haven't been the same since. I was playing quite a bit at the time and changed my snare head about once every 4 to 5 gigs. I always had to go to the store and hand pick them myself by doing the tap test, otherwise I would get a dull head that sounded dull on the drum. As Bermuda said, about 25% of the heads were dull sounding. I went with a coated ambassador for a while and it was cool, but I went through them too fast...I'm also a pretty hard hitter. So, I recently tried Evans coated G2's on my Ludwig supraphonic and they have sounded great..and the coating doesn't wear off. I have gotten one Evans G2 head that was a bit dull sounding and it didn't resonante quite as much as others I've had when I do the tap test (I do the tap test on all my heads now just to be safe), but it was one in about 25 heads I've gotten. Pretty consistent. Anyway, that's my 2+ cents worth :eek:)
 
I've seen my share of bad Remo heads, but I still prefer them to everything else. I've had no luck at all with Aquarians (flaking coating and papery sound) and Evans coated heads sound dead, and the clears like plastic. Evans heads are stiffer too and don't offer the sound options I need either. I've found the most tunable, comfortable heads are Ambassadors, and I love Fiberskyns as well. I've probably had like 50 Evans heads and while none of them had technical issues I prefer Remo's sound and feel which is matters for me more than the occasional bad head.
 
It sounds to me from Bermuda's commentary that Remo's quality control issues mainly occur with their 2-ply heads, and not single-ply ambassadors. Has anyone had any bad luck with ambassadors or Remo's FiberSkyn 3 heads?

I just ordered a whole lot of FiberSkyns for batters and clear ambassadors for resonant heads today. I hope I'm not in trouble; I haven't had issues with Remo in the past, but you guys have a habit of making a guy worry. :)

I'll tell you the results of my "tap tests" as well as how that compares to how they sound tuned onto the drums after they arrive.
 
I have been thinking of getting all new tom batters and resos (from remo), but now this is making me worry.

Has anyone ever had a problem with clear Powerstroke 3 (on the toms), and clear ambassadors?

I believe they're both 1 ply heads, but I just wanted to make sure.
What do you think of that combination?
 
I have been thinking of getting all new tom batters and resos (from remo), but now this is making me worry.

Has anyone ever had a problem with clear Powerstroke 3 (on the toms), and clear ambassadors?

I believe they're both 1 ply heads, but I just wanted to make sure.
What do you think of that combination?

My son used that combo for a while.. They were ok but didn't sound there "best" until they were tuned medium high. Anything below that and the muffle ring under the head would wrinkle and make an annoying sound. If you try them, get the ones with the clear dot. The dot will make them last a lot longer. If you could be interested in Aquarian, try Super 2's on top and Classic Clears on the bottoms. That's a nice combo.
 
It sounds to me from Bermuda's commentary that Remo's quality control issues mainly occur with their 2-ply heads, and not single-ply ambassadors. Has anyone had any bad luck with ambassadors or Remo's FiberSkyn 3 heads?

I just ordered a whole lot of FiberSkyns for batters and clear ambassadors for resonant heads today. I hope I'm not in trouble; I haven't had issues with Remo in the past, but you guys have a habit of making a guy worry. :)

I'll tell you the results of my "tap tests" as well as how that compares to how they sound tuned onto the drums after they arrive.

Yes, he is talking about the 2 ply guys. I have had the same exact problem as he did. Just recently, my son got Pinstripes for his set. They sounded great and tuned up with no troubles so I either got lucky when I got them or they have improved. I'm not sure which.. I got them cuz that was what the store had as far as a complete set in his sizes. I tapped them before I bought them and I was surprised that they seemed ok... so I got them. So far... So good..
 
My son used that combo for a while.. They were ok but didn't sound there "best" until they were tuned medium high. Anything below that and the muffle ring under the head would wrinkle and make an annoying sound. If you try them, get the ones with the clear dot. The dot will make them last a lot longer. If you could be interested in Aquarian, try Super 2's on top and Classic Clears on the bottoms. That's a nice combo.

Dot? I didn't know they had them with dots. They look kind of cheesy to me. I've tried ps3's on my friends kit and they sounded magnificent. I think he had a pearl masters though :p
I'm not sure what resos he was using.

Dots look cheesy to me...


Would the aquarians make a similar sound?
 
Dot? I didn't know they had them with dots. They look kind of cheesy to me. I've tried ps3's on my friends kit and they sounded magnificent. I think he had a pearl masters though :p
I'm not sure what resos he was using.

Dots look cheesy to me...


Would the aquarians make a similar sound?

Yeah, they come with no dot, white dot and clear dot. Most people don't know that because most stores just get the basic ones which of course are clear.

The Super 2's will have a lot of bottom to them.. if you like a low or medium low sound, they would work well for you. They aren't dead. I'd say loud and round. Here is the description off of Aquarian's site.

Super-2™ Drumheads "A New Kind Of Two Ply Head"

They have great attack, projection and depth unlike any other drumheads. The patented Safe-T-Loc hoop prevents the head from slipping and the Sound Curve collar design provides "Responsive Tuning". With Responsive Tuning, one turn of the drum key and Super-2™ heads react. A free tuning sheet is enclosed with each Super-2 drumhead.

CLEAR: Wet attack, lot's of bottom end and depth.

COATED: Mellow, warm full sound.

CLEAR WITH POWER DOT: Focused, deep and solid.

CLEAR WITH STUDIO-X RING: Focused, warm and punchy.


SUPER-2 DRUMHEADS

"A New Kind of Two Ply Head"

In the past, two ply heads had either attack with little or no depth or they had depth with little or no attack. SUPER-2 drumheads have great attack, a rich mid-range and a powerful bottom end and depth. SUPER-2 drumheads sound louder, fuller and more powerful than conventional two ply heads. The patented Safe-T-Loc hoop prevents the head from slipping and the "Sound Curve" collar design provides "Responsive Tuning". With Responsive Tuning, one small turn of the drum key and the SUPER-2 heads react. A free tuning sheet is enclosed with each SUPER-2 drumhead. Attack with bottom end, projection with power and "Responsive Tuning" are what SUPER-2's are all about.

Application: For any drummer looking for more tone, more power and projection for today's music.

*pictured are the clear SUPER-2's and the clear SUPER-2 with Studio-X ring. They are also available coated or clear with a Power Dot.
 
Yeah, they come with no dot, white dot and clear dot. Most people don't know that because most stores just get the basic ones which of course are clear.

The Super 2's will have a lot of bottom to them.. if you like a low or medium low sound, they would work well for you. They aren't dead. I'd say loud and round. Here is the description off of Aquarian's site.

Super-2™ Drumheads "A New Kind Of Two Ply Head"

They have great attack, projection and depth unlike any other drumheads. The patented Safe-T-Loc hoop prevents the head from slipping and the Sound Curve collar design provides "Responsive Tuning". With Responsive Tuning, one turn of the drum key and Super-2™ heads react. A free tuning sheet is enclosed with each Super-2 drumhead.

CLEAR: Wet attack, lot's of bottom end and depth.

COATED: Mellow, warm full sound.

CLEAR WITH POWER DOT: Focused, deep and solid.

CLEAR WITH STUDIO-X RING: Focused, warm and punchy.


SUPER-2 DRUMHEADS

"A New Kind of Two Ply Head"

In the past, two ply heads had either attack with little or no depth or they had depth with little or no attack. SUPER-2 drumheads have great attack, a rich mid-range and a powerful bottom end and depth. SUPER-2 drumheads sound louder, fuller and more powerful than conventional two ply heads. The patented Safe-T-Loc hoop prevents the head from slipping and the "Sound Curve" collar design provides "Responsive Tuning". With Responsive Tuning, one small turn of the drum key and the SUPER-2 heads react. A free tuning sheet is enclosed with each SUPER-2 drumhead. Attack with bottom end, projection with power and "Responsive Tuning" are what SUPER-2's are all about.

Application: For any drummer looking for more tone, more power and projection for today's music.

*pictured are the clear SUPER-2's and the clear SUPER-2 with Studio-X ring. They are also available coated or clear with a Power Dot.

Wow. Thanks! That's definitely changing my mind about Remo a little bit. The description sounds like that's exactly what I'm looking for.
 
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