Custom or Big name?

There is a place for custom drums. Whenever you want something really special that the "big ones" do not offer. Most of the time, the drums of the big companies are enough for just about anyone. I mean, what can be really improved on a Starclassic/Star, a Maple Custom, a Saturn, a ProLite/Vintage, Broadcaster, etc.? Those are all top-notch drums that work in a wide variety of musical settings.

I'd stick to the well known brands for three reasons: Resale-value, replacement parts and because I don't know what I'd want to have from a custom drummaker. A copy of my Starclassics? Better buy the original, right?
 
I like the fact there is an option for name brand or custom. Really now the market caters to about every niche-not much of that decades ago-so it is a much more competitive market which should drive lower costs and better products, which is what I see- then too the beginner drummer market was so large and the competition so stiff I'm amazed at the quality of kit and bang for your buck you get now (thanks to technology)-which has an impact on making and selling higher end drums (they have to offer the high end features with cost/profit margins probably pretty tight because of all the competition and the fact you can get great drums at a lower cost as Johno points out with his Sonors). I've always thought it wise to spend your money on high end cymbals, snare, and good hardware cause kick and toms you can get a great sound from a cheap kit (I didn't hear a big enough difference to warrant it). However after listening to some custom drum kits I've changed my mind and set my eye on a custom kit.
 
Having seen the numbers, how you can possibly disagree with "Compared to the quality you get, it's actually cheaper than at any time in history[.]"?

Regards,

Bob

Because you can use numbers to prove whatever you want and your numbers are american so they mean sh1t to me

I am speaking from experience of a drummer based in the UK for the last 25 years. The increase of price, not in line with inflation or wages has made the same drums literally more expensive.

I gave the examples of my own experience and you chose not to read them or relate them to what I wrote, so in all honesty, why should I spend even 5 seconds reviewing yours?

It's just an opinion dude, you clearly spent a lot of time researching your reply, what a shame it fell on such deaf ears
 
Good posit Larry. I wonder which is more resource saving/ecologically sound- ply or solid? My bet solid. I remember in my home town Weyerhaeuser built a particle board plant ( a huge lumber yard was nearby and they had plenty of saw dust because they could no longer burn it in their huge furnaces) which is quite a process to turn that sawdust into a sheet of wood. All the locals jumped all over it using it for everything till they quickly realized it's crap -it gets wet swells and falls apart. So I vote more wood less glue.
 
To me, it's no longer a question of custom or big name....it's ply or solid shell.

I never offloaded a kit that I custom ordered, never will. I built it for ME. I have custom DW's, Eames, and 2 Guru kits.

I think the next logical step in the evolution of drum shells is to have more solid shells than ply shells in the market.

I liken it to this: When cars first came out, you didn't get air conditioning. That came later. In the beginning, no cars had A/C. Now, I'm not even sure you can buy a car without A/C. To me, solid shells are like A/C. It's a step up in drums, that eventually, the pack will follow.

That's my prediction, in 50 years, there will be more solid shell offerings...by a large margin.

By that measure then we will all have to have a 5000% pay rise just to keep up

Larry, you appear to have more money than anyone else on here. I would say you are a special case in that you can afford to spend whatever you want.

However, given the same situation, and the same amount of money, no, I would not.

Also, a more accurate analogy would be:

Solid shells are like carbon fibre. Until there is a cost-effective way to mass produce that level of build quality then it will always be expensive and laborious.

Aircon is an accessory on a car, not part of its construction. Cars are not made out aircon ;-)

We all have our own ideal world, I just think that most of that is in our heads, according to our experiences and financial situations. Also, solid shells have been available for years, why do you think that there aren't more people doing it? That's right, cost.
 
Reality is that I know the sound I like and that's the TOTL for a very old and stable brand . Gretscjh.

If I wanted something different to complement it I'd probably find it with Yamaha, which should start making wood hoops and Club Customs again,. Shame on them.

See, even with big brands there's no guarantee. Remo TSS anyone?

Anyway.

With snares I don't really care. Main snares are old White Colaiuta sig, old 6" Grestch hammer brass and Longo Walnut. Nothing unique about the hardware on those at all.

THe BB I use for orchestral does the job. Would I be afraid to get an AK if I could afford it and liked it better? No.


Now keepng things for life is a hard one. As your tastes change, if you buy something from a small custom shop, how would you know? If you ever get sick, broke and can't play anymore, you might change your mind.

Simple for me. I know what kit I want and it's in the works. The 10 snares I got were planned a long time ago. They represent all the options I think I'll ever need and none of them were terribly expensive. I'm never looking for the new hip thing. Nest kit... What's that? I'll buy one if I need it. Not because it would be cool to have. It'll soon enough just be in the way.

Obviously I'd like my financial situation to be and have been better than it has been lately, but there is a quite defined line where the gear thing ends for me.
 
I remember when LED lights came out the cost of one was like the cost of 6 pack now-so costs of products can change. I wonder how much the market varies per country-because everything else sure as hell sales at different prices. I'm pretty ignorant of the business side of it but do drum makers like pharmaceutical companies sale a drug/drum for a cheaper price in one country and make it up by selling higher in another or is it just local economics that controls it? So if I buy a Pearl export in the US, UK, Japan, Australia, does the cost vary that much?
 
To me, it's no longer a question of custom or big name....it's ply or solid shell.

I never offloaded a kit that I custom ordered, never will. I built it for ME. I have custom DW's, Eames, and 2 Guru kits.

I think the next logical step in the evolution of drum shells is to have more solid shells than ply shells in the market.

I liken it to this: When cars first came out, you didn't get air conditioning. That came later. In the beginning, no cars had A/C. Now, I'm not even sure you can buy a car without A/C. To me, solid shells are like A/C. It's a step up in drums, that eventually, the pack will follow.

That's my prediction, in 50 years, there will be more solid shell offerings...by a large margin.

I think cars with A/C, electric windows, etc all came to be because of speed of build. Put it on all cars and no special orders. When was the last time anyone ordered a car as opposed to buying one off of the lot? Solid shell or one ply shells I don't see becoming the normal because of the build time. Imagine how many ply shells can be put in a mold daily as opposed to the number of stave shells put together by hand. I would agree that the stave, segmented or solid drums may have a better build quality but I don't see them as ever becoming the norm. In 50 years I would see more solid shells being made than today, but not more of the market share.
 
I remember when LED lights came out the cost of one was like the cost of 6 pack now-so costs of products can change. I wonder how much the market varies per country-because everything else sure as hell sales at different prices. I'm pretty ignorant of the business side of it but do drum makers like pharmaceutical companies sale a drug/drum for a cheaper price in one country and make it up by selling higher in another or is it just local economics that controls it? So if I buy a Pearl export in the US, UK, Japan, Australia, does the cost vary that much?

Like most things, light bulbs, stereo equipment, TV sets, computers are all mass produced and costs do go down over time. I don't see stave drums ever being mass produced to the point of assembly line and keeping the standards as high. Pharmaceuticals are ridiculous and difficult to compare prices because of restriction put on by different countries. There are drugs available in Mexico that are still banned in the US. But as in my previous post I don't ever see stave, segmented, or solid drums ever being massed produced. I hope not anyway.
 
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I'm going Big Name/ Custom Sizes. 20x14, 13x9, 16x14. Either Ludwig or Gretsch. Haven't decided which yet. I know what i'm getting with either of those brands more or less. Not that a custom builder couldn't make me a great kit in those sizes but i doubt it would be any cheaper which would be a motivating factor.
 
By that measure then we will all have to have a 5000% pay rise just to keep up

Larry, you appear to have more money than anyone else on here. I would say you are a special case in that you can afford to spend whatever you want.

However, given the same situation, and the same amount of money, no, I would not.

Also, a more accurate analogy would be:

Solid shells are like carbon fibre. Until there is a cost-effective way to mass produce that level of build quality then it will always be expensive and laborious.

Aircon is an accessory on a car, not part of its construction. Cars are not made out aircon ;-)

We all have our own ideal world, I just think that most of that is in our heads, according to our experiences and financial situations. Also, solid shells have been available for years, why do you think that there aren't more people doing it? That's right, cost.

Johno, even though on the surface, it seems like we disagree, you and I are in agreement. When I predicted solid shells would be the mainstream in 50 years, I am definitely counting on some sort of mass production for solid shells, not the way they are built now. Look at computers. Very expensive in the beginning. Companies see where the market is moving to, and fall over themselves trying to capitalize on it. Now computers are very competitive.

Same thing. I think. And I concede that it may never play out that way. I always thought the market gravitated toward the superior product, eventually, so I'm basing my thoughts on that.

On a more personal note, I could make more if I wanted to work harder, but I'm good with about 50,000 a year. No money in the bank either. I only work maybe 3 days a week average, by choice. I'm not monied, like at all. It's foolish to try and predict my income by my expenditures, I'm pretty careless when it comes to money. I just don't give a crap about it beyond what I need to live.

I always thought Bo was the rich dude here. (Apart from the 2 financially well off people I know about on this forum)
 
Solid? Tell me more.

In the '80s, Craviotto (pre-DW) and Bill Gibson from Huey Lewis & the News partnered in the Solid drum company to make 1-ply snares. I don't think the venture lasted very long, but the snares are very nice and very hard to find. I'm not sure resale is even a consideration with them, since the owners tend to hang onto them. But when they do come up, they sell pretty fast.

I would love to have one but have only seen a few in the last 30 years.

Bermuda
 
Being in the construction industry, wood is becoming more and more expensive. Any dream of solid stave drums being the norm is highly unlikely as a budgetary consideration in the not too distant future. More and more home construction is changing to engineered wood products, which can be made of wood shavings and sawdust and resins. I'd guess as wood becomes more and more expensive, some day drummers will be arguing over which hardwood resin molded shells have the best properties. lol

Honestly a lot of people seem to gloss over the cost of the drum finish in the price of kits. If you finished a set of Pearl Exports with the same quality of finish as some of the expensive DW's or other custom shops out there, I think the price would be pretty similar. And that's not knocking either brand. But I seriously doubt the cost of materials varies much per drum between the different manufacturers.

Someone else mentioned different shell types, and how some custom shops just use Keller Shells, like that's a bad thing. I wonder if you took a 6 ply maple shell from Keller, from Gretsch, from Yamaha, from Sonor, heck any ply manufacturer you want. Cut the same bearing edges, mounted the same hardware, use the same skins. Use a tunebot to tune them all exactly the same. Would there be any difference at all that is actually audible? I feel skeptical about that.
 
Being in the construction industry, wood is becoming more and more expensive. Any dream of solid stave drums being the norm is highly unlikely as a budgetary consideration in the not too distant future. More and more home construction is changing to engineered wood products, which can be made of wood shavings and sawdust and resins. I'd guess as wood becomes more and more expensive, some day drummers will be arguing over which hardwood resin molded shells have the best properties. lol

Honestly a lot of people seem to gloss over the cost of the drum finish in the price of kits. If you finished a set of Pearl Exports with the same quality of finish as some of the expensive DW's or other custom shops out there, I think the price would be pretty similar. And that's not knocking either brand. But I seriously doubt the cost of materials varies much per drum between the different manufacturers.

Someone else mentioned different shell types, and how some custom shops just use Keller Shells, like that's a bad thing. I wonder if you took a 6 ply maple shell from Keller, from Gretsch, from Yamaha, from Sonor, heck any ply manufacturer you want. Cut the same bearing edges, mounted the same hardware, use the same skins. Use a tunebot to tune them all exactly the same. Would there be any difference at all that is actually audible? I feel skeptical about that.

With the advances in materials science and 3-D printing, I think we'll have mostly moved beyond wood within 20 years, maybe even 15. The spun fiberglass shells are far more resonant than any wood shell, and sound really good. It's just a matter of running computer models that can accurately predict the sound qualities of any proposed material for drum-building, and then making it. I suspect we'll even have shells that can change their overall shape/structure at the small scale too, so that you can have roundovers with a mahogany-type sound on one song, followed by rosewood-type sound with sharp 45s on the next.
 
We,ve all had lots of time to think this over, so as far as drums go, would your next purchase be from a custom builder or one of the big guys?

I think it really depends on my budget and what I was wanting. I have a hard time arguing if one of the "big guys" is better/worse than one of the "little guys." I think if I was wanting something custom, I'd get a local builder to build it for me because he's VERY reasonable and he does great work. Plus, I'd much rather put money in the pocket of someone who is close by, and I wouldn't have to worry about shipping if there is any warranty work that needs to happen.

I NEVER go into any musical instrument ownership thinking about resale value. Ever. I have sold some stuff, but it's never my intent to buy and resale someday.
 
There's a practical argument to this as well in favor of the big names. If you ever get to the point where you're traveling around playing all the time (like most big name artists), the big names will have a network of distribution points for you to get drums when you need them.

Years ago at my first NAMM show visit, I spoke with a rep at Hohner, who distributes Sonor. And he explained to me the issues he had getting Gavin Harrison a kit when he played on David Lettermen's TV show. It was a nightmare for him because Sonor basically ships out exactly what Gavin needs for the performance and has it there waiting for him when he arrives for the show. Only in this instance, FedEx lost the entire kit. The panicked rep then had to scrounge around to find a kit for Gavin and came close to the wire.

I'm sure a small little custom shop would not be able to provide a kit to their artists unless they had that same kind of distribution network (sometimes worldwide) to be able to provide for their endorsees. After this story, I'm fairly certain that no big name drummer is actually carrying his own stuff on planes for a gig. The company is handling all those logistics.

Even with my work at Disneyland, we don't expect drummers to be bringing in their own stuff, we provide drums and amplifiers at least, so all the talent has to do is show up and play. Can you imagine a small custom shop just having to provide drums to a theme park for advertisement? That would probably kill any profit margin they may have had.

I love the work some of the custom shops do, but it's not necessary for me to be able to play. The gear's job for me is to just not break down while I'm playing it and to sound good. I can get that out of a lot of gear, and at the rate I'm going, I'm going to be able to say I've tried everybody's drums before I die ;)
 
"We provide drums"...I,d be interested to know what you do supply, including hardware, cymbals etc.
A kit like that would be tweaked and tuned more in one month than mine would be in a year..LOL.
 
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