Danny Carey

T-1000 said:
If you have a reason to come back to the music, it means something stood out at you initially, therefore you did like the music at first.

And also, just listen to the Vicarious breakdown. There's the duhduhduhduh duh duhduh (to the rhythm of 'why don't we just admit it?'). Adam probably said: 'now that's pretty cool - but wait! It's in 4/4!? Oh heavens, because we like to think we're cleverer than all other rock bands, we'll add an extra 'duhduh' onto that phrase so it's now in 5/4, so it must be really deep and insightful.' Even though it sounds totally tacked on.

I never listen to the lyrics of any songs, because I like music, not poetry, but my friend and fellow band member tells me they embody pretentiousness. Besides, I'll never aquire the intelligence nesseccary to decipher Maynard 'Genius' Keenan's lyrics (I can't even spell 'nesseccary').

I disagree with everything you just said apart from the bit about liking something. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. While I don't think the music Tool produce is sheer genius, I do enjoy the odd timings without it being too OTT to not enjoy. Wings Parts 1 and 2, IMHO, are superb. But they're not to your tastes, cool, whatever. I agree, Maynard is not a genius, but I do like his lyrics, I don't try to decipher them, I just sing along in the car or whatever or have a phrase which might stick in my head. This is normally the reason why I return to a song as it "grows" on me. I didn't actually like Wings 1 and 2 to start with, it grew on me as a result of liking the build up and the "give me my wings" line in the middle. I can't understand how his lyrics "embody pretentiousness" since at no point does he state how superior he or his band are to anyone else in this world. I've read stuff where he has come across as arrogant though, I'll give you that.
 
finnhiggins said:
Right, but again we're going to have to contrast this with other bands out there. Let's look at Zappa - he managed to tour along with writing and arranging for considerably larger bands than Tool. And a lot of what he wrote was considerably more technically dense and layered. But in any given year he probably released about as much material as Tool produce in a decade, if not more.

Or there's Mr Bungle. Like Tool they pretty much only put an album out every four or five years during their lifetime as a band, and they always had to share Mike Patton with (the much bigger label priority) Faith No More. Other members had other gigs with John Zorn and others too. But each of their three albums was considerably more unique, varied and dense than this latest Tool album.

Two things to keep in mind:

* Coming off the back of Lateralus there were various interviews with Adam where he claimed they had another whole album worth of material they hadn't released on Lateralus which was written during the writing process for that album.

* The riff for 10,000 Days / Wings For Marie was being played regularly during the tours in 2002 between songs.

... so crediting them with writing the entire album in a year is maybe a bit wrong, considering that the primary musical material that makes up one 17-minute two-part song dates back to at least 2002.

Fair play on the having written the album in a year, I was only quoting what I read in Danny's Rhythm interview, though playing riffs and writing songs are two different things as I'm sure you know... and I think I read that the "whole album worth of material" was near enough ditched, I'm pretty sure I read that all of this stuff was new and the Lateralus "leftovers" were canned, though I could be completely wrong on that.

I read some stuff on the Toolarmy messageboards (yes, admittedly, I am a paid up member, though I would never profess Tool to be the best thing since sliced bread, I just enjoy the music) about Tool simply doing what they do for their own enjoyment. Perhaps it's for this reason that they haven't released this album for such a long time? Perhaps they wanted to work on it to get it a level they were happy with? I have no idea, I'm not defending the wait from album to album, just trying to justify.

To be honest I'm not really old enough to appreciate Tool from before they were seen as a pretentious prog rock band (as I've stated somewhere else I only got into them properly in about 1999, when I was still at school, at the time I think Maynard flat out refused to be interviewed and had just come across as moody, rather than arrogant) so have only really enjoyed the release of Lateralus and their latest, and I wasn't eagerly awaiting the release of the newest Tool, since my musical taste has been elsewhere since the release of Lateralus. That's what I like about Tool, actually. The fact I'm still interested enough after five years to listen to their new stuff, having been into a lot of pop punk and metal in the last few years (when I say metal I mean straightforward 4/4 euro-metal - Arkangel/ Heaven Shall Burn et al), I'm not really into prog, I'm only really just getting into it as part of an interest in developing my drumming.

Oh and I think saying that Mr. Bungle's albums were "unique, varied and dense" is a matter of perspective - personally I really don't enjoy Mr. Bungle... unique, yes, but not in a good way. I don't really see how Tool isn't unique, they don't sound like many other bands... do they?!


I'm gonna have to re-visit that thing about the breakdown in Vicarious (apologies Finn, I know it wasn't you that raised this, but it's bugged me) I just don't see how it's forced or "tacked on" or anything else... it sounds completely natural to me?! Again, I guess this is totally a matter of perspective, but that fifth beat sounds... well... right, somehow. I wouldn't sound right in 4/4, it wouldn't fit the song. I dunno.


Gah.... long post!
 
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altered_beast said:
Oh and I think saying that Mr. Bungle's albums were "unique, varied and dense" is a matter of perspective - personally I really don't enjoy Mr. Bungle... unique, yes, but not in a good way. I don't really see how Tool isn't unique, they don't sound like many other bands... do they?!

Sorry about not replying to the rest, but I'm in a hurry - going out in a second.

When I said that their albums were unique, varied and dense I think that's all pretty hard to dispute - whether you like them is another matter. But just to clarify, "unique" and "varied" in this context is basically talking about their position inside the canon of work the band has produced. In the case of Mr Bungle you can immediately identify which album a song is from just based on a cursory listen - there's no mistaking the self-titled album for Disco Volante (the latter is considerably more avant-garde and makes virtually no pretense at having any "normal" sections of pop songwriting) and likewise there's no mistaking either of them for California - while the first album sounds like very stupid early 90s funk-metal and Disco Volante sounds like John Zorn, California sounds like 60s pop music.

Tool, on the other hand, have made three albums in a row that are nearly interchangeable in terms of musical content, and only variable in terms of production expense and songwriting quality - which have been increasing and decreasing respectively over the last decade, IMHO. I just can't find much to like about this album because everything that I hear on it has already been done, and done better.
 
finnhiggins said:
I just can't find much to like about this album because everything that I hear on it has already been done, and done better.

by whom? I'd like to hear that. I'm not saying Tool is the best, but they're certainly different to a lot of what is around at the moment. OK I'll agree about the interchangeable thing, but does that make them bad musicians? OK so it's not a completely different sound from one album to the next, but how many artists do have a different sound from one album to the next? Not many that I know of.

Like I said, I think this is going to be a case of agree to disagree. Personally I really like 10,000 Days, and I absolutely love Lateralus and Aenima, particularly Disposition/ Reflection/ Triad from Lateralus as well as the title track, Parabola... hell... all of it's good.

I think at the end of the day this whole argument falls down to personal tastes and the way peoples tastes change over the years. I'm not going to sit here and tell you Mr. Bungle were crap, that's my personal opinion which is clearly different to yours, I just never liked Mike Patton's work (though to be fair I've not heard mcuh Fantomas). As far as being pretentious goes... I don't understand how music can be pretentious. I can understand the musicians being pretentious, but the music itself? The lyrics? IMO lyrics are written to fit music, and are inspired by something, like an event, and are written about as the writer sees and feels fit. If the implication were there that Maynard or Tool were so far superior to everything else ever then I could maybe understand, I just don't get how changing the time sig in a song could possibly be pretentious or writing songs about your mother being paralised for 27 years or having a segue on your album about someone who lived with you claiming to be a "friend of a friend" and it transpired they knew none of your friends etc etc can possibly be pretentious... perhaps I'm not seeing the wood for the trees?! If Tool had just released Lateralus and released 10,000 Days in 5 years when I'm 26 perhaps I wouldn't like 10,000 Days as much as I do right now? It just seems to fit into my world pretty well at the moment, and musically has inspired me to start working a bit more progressively and push the boundaries of what my band can do and will do. So in that respect I'm totally thankful to Tool. Can't wait to see em at Download either.
 
i know a million people of already posted this, but out of respect to this bloke i'll say it again! this guy is what makes me wanna drum! i personally think he is the best drummer around at the moment...
 
I personally think Maynard is a genius. If not, he is definately the best vocalist out there. I don't get why some people don't like him? My friend pointed out to me (and upon doing research, I'll confirm it) that in Lateralus Maynard is using the fibonnacci (sorry bout the spelling) sequence when singing. Now if this isn't a work of a genius, what the hell is?!
And to those saying that Tool play odd time signitures to be progressive, whatever. They have nothing to prove. The great music speaks for itself.
 
nadslaing said:
I personally think Maynard is a genius. If not, he is definately the best vocalist out there. I don't get why some people don't like him? My friend pointed out to me (and upon doing research, I'll confirm it) that in Lateralus Maynard is using the fibonnacci (sorry bout the spelling) sequence when singing. Now if this isn't a work of a genius, what the hell is?!

I hate to say this, but Mudvayne are also pretty big into the whole "using allegedly occult number sequences to write rhythms" thing too. Sure, they ripped it off Tool. But you don't exactly have to be a genius to do it....

And I wouldn't rate him as the best vocalist out there either. I've seen some live videos where he's missing notes quite seriously, and he has a very limited style. But I do like him a lot, he's certainly been one of my favourites historically. I just don't rate either the new Tool album or the last Perfect Circle one, nothing like his best work on either of them.
 
I'll agree with you on the last APC one (though I did love Passive) and the latest Tool album is wearing a bit thin already. Mind you I've not listened to it much lately, I keep listening to Lateralus in some attempt to understand how Danny Carey does that thing in the middle with the hi hats/ bass drum. I just don't have the co-ordination yet to do it, but my teacher just gave me some stuff to practice...
 
He simply is incredible. They songs they played were absolutely note perfect, he was simply amazing to watch, even if I was stood absolutely miles from the stage... Absolutely fantastic. Next time I hear of Tool touring the UK I'm going to get tickets for one of their headlining shows rather than a festival so I can experience it properly. Truly stunning!
 
I don't understand why everyone is getting into the nuances of whether or not they really like tool, Maynard and whatever else. What i can say is, i hated Tool when i first listened to them, but the first thing i noticed as they grew on me was just how amazing the drumming was! I just cannot fault Carey, I really can't, he's amazing. And after having the honour of seeing him live just last week i am even more in awe, he's so silky smooth, hits hard like some kind of demon when need be, delivers complex, challenging rhythms, injects personality....What more can you ask for? :)
 
aegir77 said:
this guy is the greatest for me. The way he plays and uses his technique and how he has improved sice the first album of tool to the last. And how he plays in the band Volto! ( seen them live,, wow)
His playing is based a lot on the feelin, a more emotional way of drumming. He can take his mind to a unique place and he can intepret his ideas and thoughts to us, as well as he can cause a reaction on every one of us drummers or musicians.
How his drumset is placed percectly with a mathematician, followin the "circle theory" mixed with the "golden proportion" mixed with a theory called " the theory of the equator".
He has no boundaries, he is really creative .
He has been a great inspiration, at least for me.
post your thoughts on this fella

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Danny_Carey.html

I absolutely agree, he has progressed my playing more than any other person could even dream to.
 
I think I'm going through my "Danny Carey influenced" stage right now... I absolutely love his playing, the way he mixes his beats up and stuff, like putting snare beats where I wouldn't expect them... I'm still learning an awful lot about drumming even now, and I abolsutely love what DC is doing... I'll follow Tool for a long long time, simply for his drumming.
 
T-1000 i gotta disagree.
Maynard not a genious? I donno. But c'mon man, he's a truckload brighter than those (insert word that refers to feces :) ) of blink182. He sings about a lot more than/a lot more to say than 'i love you' 'why did you leave me?', "look how long my d**** is" " in da club this, in da club that", "chicks with big boobs", or endless yapping about californication (yes, thát group) and blablabla...
he actually thinks about his lyrics. Makes you think. IF you want to hear it of course. Cuz I can explain all you want, but if you don't do the effort actually taking your time to read and think about them..then you what the hell. (if don't say you HAVE to read them, just don't say Maynard is not a genius if you even can't bring it up to look at his work and not compare it to others, wich is - i understand from your posts) exactly what you're doing.

and the almost constantly out of 4/4 play. It's what they do.
So??
Hell, I don't hear anyone complain about Dave Brubeck & Joe Morello??
Does anyone here blame Art Blakey for play so immensly brilliant? Or do you guess he's just trying to be elite? No don't think so.
And i haven't even mentioned any free jazz artist.
Are you gonna critisize everyone that plays not so evident music?

Tool playing the way they do is...what they do....and I think it's far better (yes, also higher) quality than a Avril Lavinge (or whatever 'mainstream' song.)

Besides: Anima is far better than Lateralus. But that's just my taste. 10.000 days is ok...more than ok If you ask me: it's one of the best new things I heard in the last year.
And making albums AFTER you did things like Anima and Lateralus is NOT easy i think...the succes becomes a burden for you upcoming productions.

And another point: i can't believe this discussion about how long it takes to make another Tool album. When they're busy with other stuff, well, then they are busy with other stuff.
USA is a free country isn't it? Well, can't they decide to play in other bands for a while? to lay it down for some time?
Since when do they constantly HAVE to be in production? Hell, they make music for the love of music (thank god that's brilliant) and not to please audience.

And just like Altered Beast i'm very influenced by Danny. I simply love his play and wish my style was the same as his. It's not that average every day play and I love that.
I love it even more cuz i really don't think they do it on purpose: It's in just them. It makes them differend. And difference; that's good.
 
finnhiggins said:
I hate to say this, but Mudvayne are also pretty big into the whole "using allegedly occult number sequences to write rhythms" thing too. Sure, they ripped it off Tool. But you don't exactly have to be a genius to do it....

And I wouldn't rate him as the best vocalist out there either. I've seen some live videos where he's missing notes quite seriously, and he has a very limited style. But I do like him a lot, he's certainly been one of my favourites historically. I just don't rate either the new Tool album or the last Perfect Circle one, nothing like his best work on either of them.

Well I'll agree with you on A Perfect Circles' last album. That was a hell of a disappointment. The exception being (of course) Passive. It was such a shame after two great albums. They ruined 'Pet' with that crappy "Count bedies..." song. That was hard to listen to.
As for Maynard live, I've never seen him live, but hopefully will soon.
 
nadslaing said:
Well I'll agree with you on A Perfect Circles' last album. That was a hell of a disappointment. The exception being (of course) Passive. It was such a shame after two great albums. They ruined 'Pet' with that crappy "Count bedies..." song. That was hard to listen to.
As for Maynard live, I've never seen him live, but hopefully will soon.
Man, if you didnt like that album, then you had NO IDEA what it was all about. I really did not enjoy it at first, but man, now that Ive listened more, its got some really good stuff in my opinion. I love the cover of Marvin Gaye's What's Goin On. Nearly all the songs on there are covers of songs written about peace.
 
Some of APC's last album was great (Passive, Imagine, Peace, Love and Understanding) some was ok (People are People... a couple others I can't remember right now) and some of it really wasn't so great (Counting Bodies...)
 
altered_beast said:
Some of APC's last album was great (Passive, Imagine, Peace, Love and Understanding) some was ok (People are People... a couple others I can't remember right now) and some of it really wasn't so great (Counting Bodies...)
You didnt like counting bodies like sheep? Im pretty sure it was just a remix of Pet from the 13th step. I thought it was a pretty interesting take on it.
 
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