My horrible Ludwig experience...

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criz p. critter

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Hi everyone. I wanted to do a follow-up to my original thread (link at the bottom) from back in April...

Brief recap: Original order for my Legacy snare was 1/21/55. When I received it at the end of April it was configured wrong. That turned out to be the shop's fault for specifying the wrong lugs. So I reordered it in the first week of May.

After months of waiting (and a few inquiries from the shop to Ludwig that were answered with "oh yeah, that should ship real soon/that will ship next week/what? you don't have it yet?), I finally got in touch with the L.A. rep who was able to find out that there was some kind of "internal mistake" on Ludwig's part. The drum was then finally shipped a week later, and I received it a week ago last Friday. For anyone who's counting, that's 9 months from the original order, 5 months after the re-order.

So I've had it a week now, and I would've posted here earlier, except that I've been so angry (and actually sick to my stomach the first couple of days) about the horrible quality of workmanship my snare shows. This is the "flagship" line of Ludwig drums, a $600 snare, "made with pride in Monroe, USA". So what is this thing that they sent me?

First thing I noticed was the way the heads were mounted. I don't expect it to be totally tuned from the factory (although that would certainly be a nice touch for a proud old company like Ludwig, wouldn't it?) but both heads were cranked down so off-center that you could easily see it by the rim-to-lug distance being so off on one side to the other, as well as seeing it though the clear snare side head. Again, I don't expect perfect tuning, but please mount the heads so they seat somewhat straight, so they're not immediately ruined. Second thing I noticed was the butt plate is mounted off-level, 1/16 higher on the left to the right side.

Ok... I'm a little disappointed at this point, but as long as the edges are ok... So I pulled off the heads to look, and the next thing is see is the way they've applied the white cortex wrap, 3/8" in from the top edge and 1/4" from the bottom (pic below). Well, ok again... maybe that's just they way they are doing it now? I thought. You don't see it when the heads are on, right?

On to the edges... I laid the snare on various places on my granite kitchen counter to examine in, and my heart just sank. What total shite work. Hills and valleys. So out that you can rock the snare back and forth on the high points, both sides of the drum.

I should've just stopped there, but I'm a glutton for punishment sometimes. I looked closer at how badly the lugs were mounted on the shell, measured them with a ruler to see if what my eyes were telling me was true. And it was. They are different distances from the edge, as much as 1/8" off in either direction. And most of them don't line up vertically, top to bottom lug. This last thing is the least of the problems, as far as I'm concerned, because most people will never look close enough to see it. But still... it just shows me the amount of craft and pride they actually put into their drums. I mean, don't they have some kind of jig to drill the holes more accurately? When I added bottom rims to two of my concert toms a few years ago, I did it perfectly, and I have zero experience with this kind of work.

Finally, the screw adjustment on the millennium throwoff binds when you adjust it. Again, no biggie. Probably a little lube with take care of that.

Oh yeah, one more thing. It supposed to have a Legacy badge, but they put a B&O badge on it. It's pretty level, though, so that's a plus. Way to go, Ludwig!!

So, what... am I just being really anal about this? Yes I am a stickler for details, and when I do a job I like to do it as well as I possibly can. I'll do it a few times if I need to, and throw away my early attempts until I get it right. But remember, this is a brand-new $600 snare, the top-of-the line Legacy Classic. Shouldn't the quality of the workmanship be pretty top-notch?

But it's clearly not. So, my first reaction was to play it for a week, to see how it sounds. I put on new heads and I've played it at a few rehearsals. I'm doing a gig with it tonight. I do definitely like the way it sounds. It is actually a very inspiring drum to play.

I'm now wondering how to proceed. I was considering just having the edges touched up by Bill Detamore of Pork Pie. I live near his shop and have an appointment for next week. I mean, what's the alternative? Complain to Ludwig, have to deal with fighting them, and then waiting dog knows how long for a replacement? And when I receive the replacement, what kind of workmanship will that one have?

But then today I'm having doubts. I've decided it all comes down to the way that wrap was applied. Is that the way they do it now? Seems rather lazy and ugly, but if so... well I'm gonna keep it. BUT, if that was a eff-you from Ludwig? Like I'm too stupid or clueless to care? Well, then I'm calling Ludwig first thing Monday.

Please everyone, give me some input on this!

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106531&highlight=legacy+classic
 

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I feel sorry for anyone who's had their hopes dashed by such experiences. I'll leave comments on the remaining points to others, but specifically on the wrap, I fail to see any good reason for applying a wrap like that. Perhaps if the bigger clearance was on the reso side (if needed), because the reso head hoop tensions further into the shell than the batter head, but this is the wrong way round for that to be the reason. I can only conclude carelessness.

I know you don't want to deal with all the grief of returns & chasing up, but for the sake of other customers, if not yourself, return that drum. It's also important to Ludwig. Getting returns is how they learn what's actually going on, & puts evidence in front of them that they can follow up & act upon. The moment you let Bill do the edges (even though he'd do a great job), your warranty claim is gone, & anyhow, why the hell should you pay for rectification.

Good luck.
 
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I own a 2009 100th. anniversary badge Legacy Classic snare and mine has no issues to speak of whatsoever. The wrap on my snare goes right flush to the bearing edge and is not cut short like yours.
 

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I don't have any first hand experience with current Ludwigs, but that wrap seems to be applied rather questionably.
 
One other comment I wanted to make. Gretsch cuts their wrap like your Ludwig snare . I recently bought a USA Custom and the wrap was cut back like your Ludwig snare. Gretsch shells are 1/16" larger than other drum makers shells.
 
Take it back. They need to know about this shoddy workmanship and they won't if you sit on it.
 
To KIS and RIckP...

My first thought on seeing the wrap was that they did it for head clearance reasons. I am used to my 3-ply B&O Ludwig kit being a tight fit with some heads. But no, there is plenty of clearance between the shell and the collar on the head.
 
I'd copy and paste your post and send it to Ludwig. I would probably play the squeaky wheel role. If you do the edges, that's off the table. I would demand another snare, and you keep this one until the new one arrives. I mean you don't have to be a dick, but, with a smile, you should not accept this drum, or accept repairs to this drum. Nothing less than what you ordered in perfect shape is what you paid for and you won't be satisfied until they hold up their end of the bargain.

Better yet, get your money back and buy an In-Tense snare.
 
The wrap job is a major minor, if the heads/rims are on and its fine he could live with that, but WTH is with the lugs being off??? Now that's unacceptable.

And the bearing edge is not true???

Oy Vey!!!


It looks like a fake LUDWIG.
 
Id return it just because of the badge. Now I LOVE ludwig, don't get me wrong, utterly love them. But I must say it seems like they are just expecting the sound of the drum to compensate for the slack job they made on it. I mean it's almost like they WANT to be slingerland, famous sound BECAUSE they weren't fully round and perfectly made. It's almost as if they believe there imperfections make there sound.
 
The wrap job is a major minor, if the heads/rims are on and its fine he could live with that, but WTH is with the lugs being off??? Now that's unacceptable.
And the bearing edge is not true???
Oy Vey!!!
It looks like a fake LUDWIG.

Bearing edges definitely not true.
This experience makes me wonder if that company currently located in Monroe isn't somehow the FAKE company. Give us back our real Ludwig!

I just scored some late 3-plies in white cortex: an 18" tom and a 24" virgin kick. Those drums are PERFECTLY made.
 
Id return it just because of the badge. Now I LOVE ludwig, don't get me wrong, utterly love them. But I must say it seems like they are just expecting the sound of the drum to compensate for the slack job they made on it. I mean it's almost like they WANT to be slingerland, famous sound BECAUSE they weren't fully round and perfectly made. It's almost as if they believe there imperfections make there sound.

And this is just the thing that I was hoping wasn't true. You hear some horror stories about Ludwig, but you also hear them about some other companies, too. But this whole experience leaves me with no other conclusion than they have become like so many other American companies, producing shoddy crap but still boasting about how superior and proud they are.
 
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I own a 2009 100th. anniversary badge Legacy Classic snare and mine has no issues to speak of whatsoever. The wrap on my snare goes right flush to the bearing edge and is not cut short like yours.
Rick - gotta say, that's possibly the worst drum photo composition I've ever seen. The colour palate clash between drum wrap & carpet is bad enough, but then the bare feet! ;) ;) ;)

Better yet, get your money back and buy an In-Tense snare.
A slight price difference Larry :(

Even better again, go get a nice snare off Bill if you're just down the road :)
 
Grunt & Larry...

Yeah, I know it's the best thing to do to call them on this, for everyone's sake, Ludwig included. But it comes down to "how much is too much?" I am sitting right on the edge, but leaning closer to returning it.

I'd still like to hear if anyone else recently got a Legacy with the wrap applied like that.
 
Rick - gotta say, that's possibly the worst drum photo composition I've ever seen. The colour palate clash between drum wrap & carpet is bad enough, but then the bare feet! ;) ;) ;)

Yeah, and it for some reason made me wonder if you weren't nude when you shot it! J/k... that's a beautiful snare.

Even better again, go get a nice snare off Bill if you're just down the road :)

Sure, but the whole point was getting a snare to match my 3-ply white cortex kit.
 
I'd still like to hear if anyone else recently got a Legacy with the wrap applied like that.
There's no good reason for the wrap being applied like that. Even if a clearance was necessary, there's no excuse for the lack of alignment. Bottom line is, it's just sloppy.

Sure, but the whole point was getting a snare to match my 3-ply white cortex kit.
I know, just making light of your frustration - sorry.
 
Please everyone, give me some input on this!

I would call them and ask immediately for a supervisor or someone with some authority to talk to. I would proceed to unload (diplomatically) on them. Then I would take their name and follow up with a letter and an email.

That is just how I roll.
 
Honestly, I don't know about how the wrap sits, some companies do that routinely and I've stopped noticing one way or the other. But edges not true? Return it to the store for a refund, period. Let them feel some of the problem, and I guarantee that they'll have more of an impact on Ludwig than your giving everyone another chance to make it right.

These kind of drums certainly aren't the norm, although they shouldn't happen at all. There's been some real QC progress in Monroe over the last 2 years in particular, and it's hard to imagine that a drum with uneven edges could slip through.

It's also a bit embarrassing for me as an artist who helps toot their horn. My reputation and judgement for choosing Ludwig also comes into question when these things occur.

Bermuda
 
That's alot to be wrong with a drum, regardless of price. 9 months too. It's almost as if some PR person got sick of dealing with you and decided to give you the worst of everything - lugs off, bearing edge f&*^ed, wrap not complete. JMO. I know I couldn't live with that. Everything I've ever bought new looked like industrial CNC equipment was involved.

And yes, I do believe there are knock-off products being sold on the market. Eg, some of the SKB cases I see look less quality than what I own. The badge would be off or not look quite right, but you can't point a finger to it. Or the inside of the padding is unglued.

Steph
 
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