Good, cheap, drum mics

805Drummer said:

Besides my bass, my kit is tuned just about perfectly how I want it. I guess I'll go with that then. One or two overheads, and 57/52 or d6 on the bass.

But: what about mixers?

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You don't need a mixer - just a multichannel audio interface (eg FireStudio, Firepod, etc... avoid the Firebox because the pres aren't great and you'd need to get two more pres to get 4 channels) if your goal is to record. Mixers will take your four channels and mix to a stereo left & right - which means if you want to bring up a little snare or kick after you've recorded, it's going to be much tougher.

What? No, not true. I quote, from Garageband's help files:

"To record on multiple tracks, you need to have an audio interface with at least two input channels for recording."

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GarageBand works fine with an audio interface. Don't know what the upper limit on channels is (I use Logic), but I know GB is fine with an interface.

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

Chonson said:

You don't need a mixer - just a multichannel audio interface (eg FireStudio, Firepod, etc... avoid the Firebox because the pres aren't great and you'd need to get two more pres to get 4 channels) if your goal is to record. Mixers will take your four channels and mix to a stereo left & right - which means if you want to bring up a little snare or kick after you've recorded, it's going to be much tougher.



GarageBand works fine with an audio interface. Don't know what the upper limit on channels is (I use Logic), but I know GB is fine with an interface.

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Crap, I called it a mixer again. Before I started researching mics and asking you guys, I thought it was called a mixer, then learned it was an interface. I slipped up =D

genericdrummingusername said:

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

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Many people have said not to get the CAD's when you'll just upgrade later.

A lot of CADs and pretty much all of the early ones, are vile. The M177/179 is a pretty good value, much more versatile (and IMO better sounding) than the C1000.

The C1000, by contrast, is within $60 of a Shure SM81 or Peluso CEMC6, which use the AKG as their prison wife. It is the same price as the clearly superior Oktava Mk-012 and SPB3, and more than twice as much as the easily competitive MXL 603, SPB1, or the dark horse Kel HM1.

genericdrummingusername said:

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

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The cad packs I saw at my local music store were like zildjian ZHT. Passable, but you'll want to upgrade when you hear GOOD ones.

The FR was pretty sad, the kick mic had a hard cutoff of something like 50-60hz.

I am not referring to the better offerings they may have, but the low end drum kit pack I saw left as much to be desired as entry level cymbals.

ermghoti said:

A lot of CADs and pretty much all of the early ones, are vile. The M177/179 is a pretty good value, much more versatile (and IMO better sounding) than the C1000.

The C1000, by contrast, is within $60 of a Shure SM81 or Peluso CEMC6, which use the AKG as their prison wife. It is the same price as the clearly superior Oktava Mk-012 and SPB3, and more than twice as much as the easily competitive MXL 603, SPB1, or the dark horse Kel HM1.

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CEMC6AGKMK012SPB3MXL603SPB1HM1.

Sorry, I just didn't understand any of that. I think I'm gonna stick with the tried and true...

trkdrmr said:

The cad packs I saw at my local music store were like zildjian ZHT. Passable, but you'll want to upgrade when you hear GOOD ones.

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Thank you so much for putting it into words I can understand!

Calummordue said:

Im pretty sure Garage band wont work with a audio interface.... garageband will only talk to one sound card and it classes an audio interface as a sound card. You will have to look at getting another.

calum

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GarageBand accepts audio interfaces, you can even combine multiple interfaces if you have more than one plugged via usb or firewire, by creating aggregate devices.

http://www.thegaragedoor.com/tutorials/agg.html

Plug in a presonus fire studio project. 8 inputs, and via firewire, it becomes your soundcard.

805Drummer said:

CEMC6AGKMK012SPB3MXL603SPB1HM1.

Sorry, I just didn't understand any of that. I think I'm gonna stick with the tried and true...

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Tried and true = B52 or D112, 2xSM81s and SM57.

As for the Cliff's notes of my previous post, C1000s are Geo Tracker mics on a Land Cruiser budget.

One more person here in favor of C1000's!!!

I've used them live and for recording. They do a great job for the price. I run a Firewire 410 for an audio interface. I use a single C1000's and borrow a nice Audix D6 for a kick mic for basic at home stuff.

I bought my C1000 new about 5 years ago for $150 and have used it a whole lot. Its really a great workhorse of a mic as far as I'm concerned.

Just curious, ever try a MXL 603? They sound about the same to me, and the everyday cost of the MXL is $100.

Garvin said:

One more person here in favor of C1000's!!!

I've used them live and for recording. They do a great job for the price. I run a Firewire 410 for an audio interface. I use a single C1000's and borrow a nice Audix D6 for a kick mic for basic at home stuff.

I bought my C1000 new about 5 years ago for $150 and have used it a whole lot. Its really a great workhorse of a mic as far as I'm concerned.

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See, I know I could've gotten better-sounding mics for the money - but I wanted something that would really last. Hence the AKG's. Are yours' the C1000 or the C1000s? I'm running the C1000s and sure, there are better mics for the price - but in terms of workmanship and reliability, the others don't come close. Just taking mine apart and unscrewing the capsule enclosure demonstrates how well these are made. They are pure quality throughout. I've never been particularly impressed with the build quality of MXL or any of the others'. That and I'm fairly loyal to AKG - they've served me well in the past when I've borrowed sets and I've never been disappointed with them.

The MXL's are cheaper, yes, but I am willing to pay a little more for the brand name with AKG. Call me mad, but I really am.

Yeah, it was a C1000S...

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE.

I'll be upgrading my microphones shortly but seriously, your cash is better spent on a quality preamp IMO.

There are guys that won't agree with me, but for my experience your priority for recording expenditures should be:

1.Computer and DAW
2. Source (drumkit with fresh heads)
3. Preamps
4. microphones (even the "cheapies" like cad, digital reference, nady have appropriate polar patterns and are designed for use in high spL fields)
5. cables (high q stuff like the top of the line monster or Mogami's)

So in a nutshell, i'd take my Nady's and a focusrite octopre (or other higher quality) preamp over good mid-range mics (akg d112's audix d6, shure sm57, cs-1000s, etc) and a presonus firestudio or lesser preamp.

Of course, if you can afford both, well then...

Good cheap drum mics and possibly the most underated drum mics are Apex aka Avlex drum mics, they come with tom mounts so you don't need mic stands. They are the best bang for the back. I use them live and find absolutely no difference b/w shures and these. I see them onebay used for like 20 a piece and they are way better than cad or samson.

diosdude said:

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE....

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While the focusrite is better (I'd expect so, for double the price) the presonus fire studio is not even close to "poor", anything that infers that is an extreme exaggeration. The audio quality difference in "samson" mics compared to audio d6 and Shure are much, much, much bigger than the difference between the presonus fire studio and the focusrite.

If a kick mic can't capture 30-80hz worth a crap, then no preamp in the world can help. It's like trying to improve the original resoloution of a image in photoshop. It won't work that way.

I have already made test recordings that sound like they came out of a studio anyway.

diosdude said:

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE.

Click to expand...

Quality preamps are definitely important - no argument there. But the source of the recordings (of which the mics are definitely a part) also bears a huge amount to the quality of the sound. Without decent input, having good preamps is thoroughly pointless and indeed vice-versa.

Those recordings, whilst credible, sound rather harsh. Particularly on the cymbals and snare. The vocal mixing is a bit strange as well. Possibly over-compressed during the quieter bits, but I'm doing a few other things at the moment as well and not playing too close attention.

What I'm trying to say is that, sure, preamps are important - but so is the source. Both are as important as each other. To say to somebody 'buy cheap mics!' isn't going to fill anyone with confidence to the overall quality of what's eventually going to be their finished product. And if somebody ends up with a mediocre mix as a result, then it doesn't warrant well for a beginner. To give yourself the best chance of quality recordings, buy the best mics and preamps/interface you can possibly afford. That's what I've done (to the point of having to borrow cables and stands; luckily I'm the Music Society technician) and whilst my recordings aren't *professional*; they're not bad. When I've got some more of my DAW project going, I'll post some on here. But rest assured, I won't be playing a full kit on it.

Incidentally, I just set up a 'Technicians and Nerds' social group if anybody wants to join. We can flesh this out there!

trkdrmr said:

While the focusrite is better (I'd expect so, for double the price) the presonus fire studio is not even close to "poor", anything that infers that is an extreme exaggeration. The audio quality difference in "samson" mics compared to audio d6 and Shure are much, much, much bigger than the difference between the presonus fire studio and the focusrite.

If a kick mic can't capture 30-80hz worth a crap, then no preamp in the world can help. It's like trying to improve the original resoloution of a image in photoshop. It won't work that way.

I have already made test recordings that sound like they came out of a studio anyway.

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Thats why you don't diss CAD, at least the Premiums.



-Generating Element: Neodymium Dynamic
-Polar Pattern: Unidirectional (Cardioid)
-Frequency Response: 25Hz - 15 kHz
-Sensitivity: -85 dB 0dB=1V/uBar @ 1 kHz 0.56 mV / PA Impedance: 150 Ohms ± 30% @ 1 kHz
-Housing: Die Cast Zinc Alloy
-Finish: "Titanium Gray" housing with black grille screen

For $50 new, I don't belive it can be beat.

genericdrummingusername said:

Thats why you don't diss CAD, at least the Premiums.

-Generating Element: Neodymium Dynamic
-Polar Pattern: Unidirectional (Cardioid)
-Frequency Response: 25Hz - 15 kHz
-Sensitivity: -85 dB 0dB=1V/uBar @ 1 kHz 0.56 mV / PA Impedance: 150 Ohms ± 30% @ 1 kHz
-Housing: Die Cast Zinc Alloy
-Finish: "Titanium Gray" housing with black grille screen

For $50 new, I don't belive it can be beat.

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Yeah those are somewhat (much) better than the samson. The "kick mic" kit I saw, the kick mic had a cutoff of 60hz. Even then, the accuracy wasn't good. There was a 4-pc mic kit for $99.

FR alone doesn't necessarily indicate it's great, but it's definitely better than having a poor FR. The shure beta has a deeper FR than the audix d6, but it takes a lot of work to get it to sound like the audix does out of the box.

I'd like to see tests/opinions of that CAD mic. It does look intriguing.

trkdrmr said:

Yeah those are somewhat (much) better than the samson. The "kick mic" kit I saw, the kick mic had a cutoff of 60hz. Even then, the accuracy wasn't good. There was a 4-pc mic kit for $99.

FR alone doesn't necessarily indicate it's great, but it's definitely better than having a poor FR. The shure beta has a deeper FR than the audix d6, but it takes a lot of work to get it to sound like the audix does out of the box.

I'd like to see tests/opinions of that CAD mic. It does look intriguing.

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Well, yeaaaaaaah, I know that, but it works great on my kick and a bass cab, too.

I also know what you mean about CHEAP ones.

This

Clearly has the same exact same capsule as this

But they're both good on toms.
And yes, I own all of these mics, and have tested them.