Neil Peart

There is no " ' " in all the plural's ;)!

I can remove them if it's an issue :)

Gotta (I know, I know) admit Swiss.........I'd rather see a few misplaced " ' " than the constant barrage of symbols, simbles, thrown's and base drum pettals that are all too prevalent on the forums.
 
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hey there,

just been watching some Peart Videos online, and after i thought about speaking my mind on him for a few years now actually, i decided to finally do so.

On a personal level, i really like the guy (from what i can tell through interviews etc.). Also i think he has a very good attitude towards his instrument and " to always be learning." I think you have to admire a person who carries himself that way (sorry for my english....)

But also - and unfortunately for him, because i bet he didnt start the myth and wouldnt want himself to be considered the best or anything like that - he is one of the most overrated drummers of all time, at least in my opinion. I want to explain this by adressing some of the most popular arguments about his playing:
1. His technical skills are amazing.
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable). Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff it just boils down to pure hand and feet speed. I think his singles are pretty good, his doubles are not that fast though. His feet are ok. Keep in mind this is all IMHO. And dont give me the "Playing over 3 is hard "(regarding one of his foot ostinatos hes playing all the time, RLL) - it's just not.

2. He's totally creative and comes up with Stuff no one can come up with
Well i actually think hes creative. At least he was once in his life when i came up with that solo hes been playing for a gazillion years now. And maybe at the Time this stuff was innovative. But now it isnt anymore. I'd like to make one point clear though: i'm speaking to drummers here (i hope). So i think you guys should understand that writing or performing a drumsolo which makes an audience go crazy - a good thing and something i admire about peart - does not necessarily mean its the most creative or expressive solo. Like in Language theres things certain people just dont understand because of a lack in vocabulary. A perfect example would be the a tony royster jr. solo video that appears on the side of a peart video on youtube and leads a lot of peart guys to it - in that video tony plays a great solo but incorporates a lot of advanced stuff like overrideng and/or playing polyrithmic patterns. In the Comments of that clip you see a lot of Peart Comparisons, where fanboys write that to them it sounds like random banging on the drums without concept, which is ridiculous. Drummers at the level of Royster (just an example, I'm not even mentioning greats like vinnie or dennis chambers) could write and perform a solo like pearts while sleeping. They just dont do it because their vocabulary is much bigger and they like to express their emotions on a much more complex level. To a person who can understand these concepts and the patterns/phrases they play, their solos are much more touching, creative and awe inspiring than anything Mr. Peart could do. I'm not saying that i want constant Polyrithmic wanking or 10 minutes of blistering fast double bass playing. But these things can make a solo much better played at the right spot. And sorry to say this, Mr.Peart just simply cant play them, so he doesnt even have the option, wich in itself IMO should clear out any doubts about if he's the best. hes just playing the same patterns and phrases over and over again, nothing creative to me there nowadays. And im not even starting about his humongous kit. I'd like to see Mr.Peart play a solo on a 3 Piece kit and see what "great phrases" he comes up with. Even at the buddy rich memorial he had to bring those cowbells, so he could play his lame signature doubles/melody phrase thing. How creative is that? Please.

I'd like to close my statement with the Fact that i would never in my Life write such a post, if there wasn't this gigantic hype around the man. I respect him and his playing and i wish him all the best and success. But i think its a slap in the face to all those guys that have invested much more time and energy in developing their craft and have deliverd so much more interesting efforts on the instrument, to say that he is the best Drummer ever or anything even remotely close (btw out of all the "overrated drummers - Portnoy, Jordison, Barker, etc- i still like him the most :))

Best wishes

Mitchi

Welcome to DrummerWorld, Mitchi. Hope you enjoy your stay.

With that being said, I have to strongly disagree with your O P I N I O N . You attack Peart's playing by suggesting that Colaiuta and Chambers can do a Peart solo while sleeping. Wow! You say Peart is creative, then blast him for doing the same patterns and phrases over and over again(again...your opinion) Huh? Gigantic hype about the man? Really?

Well...I constantly see present day drummers' bios listing NP as a huge influence. Accomplished drummers point to him as someone they listened to growing up and were in awe of his playing. He's won countless drumming awards since the 70's...and STILL does to this day. Always listed and nominated on many readers polls from an array of drum magazines. As far as rock drummers, he is without a doubt, one of the top drummers ever. He's earned enough respect from Cathy Rich, Buddy Rich's daughter, to spearhead the Burning for Buddy series of recordings and shows. He gathered some of the most revered drummers in the world for that project in the mid 90's, and he also participated in the 2008 Buddy Rich Memorial Concert, AGAIN invited by Cathy Rich. He's had a hugely successful recording career with Rush, since 1975, with albums such as Fly By Night, 2112, and Hemispheres in the 70's. Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals, Power Windows, and Hold Your Fire in the 80's. Roll The Bones, Counterparts, and Test For Echo in the 90's. And the most recent work Snakes & Arrows.

I mean, what's your point Mitchi? Who's next on your radar, Bonham, Moon, Gadd, etc...

Who died and made you THE authority on who is overrated or underrated in the drumming world? Sounds like you are the next Buddy Rich. Oh wait, you probably think he's overrated too.

Thanks for your opinion, which I'm sure is not shared by most other "drumming" fans. Not "fanboys" as you call them. Don't get confused between infatuation and fact. I'm a call-it-like-I-see-it "drumming" enthusiast, who ain't buying what you're selling, Mitchi.

But in fairness to freedom of speech, you have every right to say whatever you believe no matter how different you think on this subject. I just strongly believe you are in the minority here, Mitchi.
 
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I was going to add something, but MikeM and Pocket-full-of-Gold said it all best.

OK, I will add this: yes, there are many drummers who are better soloists. But most people who worship Peart don't do so for his drum solo ability, and probably would list his solo ability near last in the reasons they like him.

It's for his song writing (lyrics) for what he does with-in the songs, and that he can play these technical parts in songs that people actually still want to hear.

Peart brings the whole package to the table, as opposed to some very talented people who don't having writing credits to their name and/or mostly play on music most non-musicians have never heard of. There are a lot of ubber technical drummers out there, but they are not on a radio, only play music most people have never heard of, and some of it leaves many people cold.

And if you read/listen to Peart interviews, for the most part, he regards himself as not all that talented.

But like MikeM said, you have to consider the context of the time. Comparing a 50+ old guy to a twenty something drummer is apples and oranges.
 
To all the guys that replied to my little "rant": first of all thanks for your opinions. And to be honest, i guess it's not right to decide who is overrated so i apolologize for that. Keep in mind that i was watching a ton of Drummers i admire yesterday on youtube, and in every other Video somebody had to post: "Yeah, but Neil Peart shits all over this Guy!" or "This Chambers Guy is nothing compared to Neil Peart...". This just always gets to me :)

When i started getting into Drums and Drummers, i always loved his Solos, and actually liked them more than more technical or intricate Stuff other Drummers did (which i later got into as i learned to understand their language). And maybe that's all there is to say about him. I still stand behind everything i said (besides the overrated thing to a degree) and i still think that there are many debatable points in what supposedly makes him so great, but he for sure did a lot for the drums and their role as a solo instrument and therefore deserves every bit of honor and success he has (like i said before).

Also maybe i need to say that i'm 24, so i don't really come from a generation, whre he had such a major impact playingwise (maybe, i don't know).

So again, all the best to you Mr.Peart and to all you Drummers in the Forum too, of course. May we have some interesting debates in the future :)

Edit: PS: to Jeff Gordon: I never said Buddy Rich is overrated or even implied it. He's in my opinion the greatest Jazz Drummer ever. Bonham and Gadd are Legends in their own Rights. But don't get me started on Keith Moon...

... in the End its all personal preference i guess..
 
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But most people who worship Peart don't do so for his drum solo ability, and probably would list his solo ability near last in the reasons they like him.

Yes, that would be me. IMO, Neil is one of the few drummers that meticulously sculpts his compositions. I never grow tired of the intro to Subdivisions - I love those ride bell syncopations. I always like the way he uses crashes as accents, like those big band drummers used splash cymbals. And his general syncopated style is just a pleasure to listen to. He is great because I never tire of listening to him. Neil is Rush. Of all the overrated rock drummers out there, why attack him? We got people slobbering over Charlie Watts and Phil Rudd around here. Sounds like a jealous resentment to me.
 
I guess your not a Rush fan because he re-wrote the book on that stuff.

Thats exactly what i was speaking about in my previous posts. He re-wrote the book on that stuff?! COME ON! But if you really think so please elaborate on the intricacies of his highly sophisticated polyrhythmic structures and demanding independence involving grooves. Because im not perfect and i would be glad if somebody proved me wrong. Seriously.

Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...

Again, i just look at pure skill and technique here, his other achievements in music and drumming are absolutely legit. But this post below is exactly why i wrote something in here in the first place...

Best wishes

Mitchi
 
Thats exactly what i was speaking about in my previous posts. He re-wrote the book on that stuff?! COME ON! But if you really think so please elaborate on the intricacies of his highly sophisticated polyrhythmic structures and demanding independence involving grooves. Because im not perfect and i would be glad if somebody proved me wrong. Seriously.

Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...

Again, i just look at pure skill and technique here, his other achievements in music and drumming are absolutely legit. But this post below is exactly why i wrote something in here in the first place...

Best wishes

Mitchi

Boy you got me there. I really only heard one song from them, Bob Saywer or something like that and it was real simple. ...

ever hear Mystic Rythms for example?
 
So i just listened to mystic rythms and am really interested in where you think that song contains any polyrythms or stickings/grooves that require more than average independence. This song shows nothing of those. Maybe you just confuse some expressions here though...
Memorizing many different Song parts and playing odd Time signatures does not equal playing the above said stuff...

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY9xuwe6EE

I like the Song btw :), except of Geddy Lees Hairstyle, but maybe that was just the 80s :D
 
I never said hes underrated. I mentioned him as overrated (portnoy that is). But i already said that maybe this is not a description i have the right to use in this context. So i'll ust say that Mr. Portnoy IMHO falls under exactly the same category Mr.Peart falls into, which is why its no surprise to me that he pays him tribute. Although i think Peart actually did a little more for Drumming in general.

I think you dont want to understand me yesdog, i dont say that these guys cant play. My point is about Skill and Vocabulary.

I own each and every dream theater album btw.
 
Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...

Not really true.

Vinnie joined Zappa in 1978. Joe's Garage came out in 1979

Neil joined Rush in 1974. Fly By Night came out in 1975.

So, technically, Neil was first.

Now if you said Terry Bozzio, you might be on to something.
 
So i just listened to mystic rythms and am really interested in where you think that song contains any polyrythms or stickings/grooves that require more than average independence. This song shows nothing of those. Maybe you just confuse some expressions here though...
Memorizing many different Song parts and playing odd Time signatures does not equal playing the above said stuff...

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY9xuwe6EE

I like the Song btw :), except of Geddy Lees Hairstyle, but maybe that was just the 80s :D

Since when are playing poly-rhythms the sole factor that determines how good a drummer is?

Just because YOU apply one criteria to determine whom is better does NOT mean other people do as well.

And honestly, who gives a flying you-know-what whom is a better drummer anyway?
Did some Rush fan pee in your cereal this morning so you feel the need to crap all over Neil to make yourself feel better?
 
And honestly, who gives a flying you-know-what whom is a better drummer anyway?

Pretty much sums up my feelings on it all.

Since when did, drumming/drummers/music in general ever become a competition?..........oh that's right....DAMN YOU.....'Idol'.....X-Factor.....(insert your nation)'s Got Talent!!

"I didn't come to the Grammy's to watch anyone win or lose......I came to watch everyone play" - Ringo Starr. Sage words indeed.


Now, for the real test. What is the BEST soft drink.....Coke or Pepsi? Surely EVERYONE knows it's Coke.....I HATE friggen' Pepsi!!
 
I dont understand the obsession with polyrhythms and stickings and blah blah blah.
In the real world if you are hired to play a session or audition for a band, I got news for you,
other musicians could give a flying F^%$$ about that stuff. Our job as a drummer is to keep time and add flavor to the music. I don't think playing 5 over 4 will go over well in most music settings. unless you want to get fired. Dave Weckl played on a song called like a virgin from madonna, Dave is one of the best drummers out there, but he played what was called for.
 
Pretty much sums up my feelings on it all.

Since when did, drumming/drummers/music in general ever become a competition?..........oh that's right....DAMN YOU.....'Idol'.....X-Factor.....(insert your nation)'s Got Talent!!

"I didn't come to the Grammy's to watch anyone win or lose......I came to watch everyone play" - Ringo Starr. Sage words indeed.


Now, for the real test. What is the BEST soft drink.....Coke or Pepsi? Surely EVERYONE knows it's Coke.....I HATE friggen' Pepsi!!
Are you freakin crazy! Pepsi is the best. Coke sucks. By the way Chicago PIzza is better
than New York's Pizza. And yes I put ketchup on my hot dogs ( thats taboo in Chicago )
 
Not really true.

Vinnie joined Zappa in 1978. Joe's Garage came out in 1979

Neil joined Rush in 1974. Fly By Night came out in 1975.

So, technically, Neil was first.

Now if you said Terry Bozzio, you might be on to something.

Actually, I think Bozzio would not have been correct either. Probably Aynsley Dunbar back in that era, then before him Jimmy Carl Black. Zappa changed drummers more than clothes, I think. Either way, he's way off on Vinnie.

I don't know what's going on here other than the usual young male competitive thing. Who's the baddest in town? Shall we have a shootout? I'll bet Neil could care a less. Beatklops - if it's Youtube comments that set you off, rest assured that most of the remarks on Youtube are from adolescent punks. I often watch videos of some classic bass players on there, and have to tolerate all the comments how Flea and Les Claypool can play circles around them. It's of course not true, but I feel no urge to go find a thread on either Les or Flea and urinate all over them, either. They aren't the ones making claims like that - the know nothing punks are.

Now if it was Ginger Baker, that's another story.......................
 
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