Touring for no money

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Sometimes I wonder why I'm not as involved in the music business as much as I used to, and then I come across something like this:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/muc/1570729781.html

Wanna see the USA (and Toronto) & feel what it's like to be an up & coming rockstar? We manage a quickly rising rock band who recently released their first cd and just got off the road with Stone Temple Pilots. They'll be hitting the road with STP again this summer. In the meantime, they'll be touring the country from March 21st-April17th, playing 350-500 seaters. Their drummer can't make this trip, so we need to find a kick ass rock drummer who'd like to come aboard for this jaunt. You need to be a quick learner and able to play solidly to a click...they have backing tracks throughout the set so your timing has gotta be right on the money. Speaking of money...you won't be getting any from this trip out. However, you will be housed in a huge RV, fed, boozed, driven across the country, and given the experience of a lifetime...hopefully, with many more to come for you.

I realize that as a little known signed band, the band is probably up to their eye balls in debt, probably hasn't seen a cent from the record company, 1/2 their record sales were lost to downloading, and the shows are barely covering the touring expenses. But still, the band must be getting paid per show, so it seems unfair that the drummer isn't offered any money.

And yet as outrageous as their offer is, I'm sure they've been flooded with young guys who have nothing to lose but would love this opportunity on their resume.
 
Hey, for an unemployed drummer, this is food, shelter and opportunities to gain exposure.

I know I'd take the chance, were I competent enough to at the moment.
 
"they'll be touring the country from March 21st-April17th, playing 350-500 seaters..."

But still, the band must be getting paid per show, so it seems unfair that the drummer isn't offered any money.

If the opener is playing 500-seaters, I'd be surprised if they're making any money, let alone the guys in the support act!

In the old days, labels would offer tour-support to help their artists get exposure, so at least the band wasn't starving and the players could pocket some money for their time on the road (with all such advances being recupable, of course!)

It's interesting now with labels being very cautious about where they spend their money, and the young bands - many of whom rebel against the labels because they couldn't get a deal! - are left out in the cold as far as advances. I imagine they think that MySpace will pay for their tour and video. BWAHAHAHAHA

Sorry... back to topic. Yeah, there are undoubtedly drummers who'll leap at such an 'opportunity', and with two bands playing small venues, the drummer with the opener is at the bottom of the food chain. Note in the ad that it doesn't appear the fill-in drummer is also going on the summer tour. Someone's going for a ride all right, but they'll probably love it just the same.

Bermuda
 
I make salary, why not? hahaha. No doubt they'll have a ton of people responding this ad just to have an opportunity to go somewhere. They'll forget the fact they dislike the man and record lables because they're a rockstar!! (who isn't getting paid).

Anyone have an idea of what group this is? Edit: Crash Kings?
 
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They'll forget the fact they dislike the man and record lables because they're a rockstar!!

The ad says "feel what it's like to be an up & coming rockstar"

I have no doubt that someone will be thrilled with traveling for free. Maybe I should do it... I love Toronto!

Bermuda
 
The ad says "feel what it's like to be an up & coming rockstar"

I have no doubt that someone will be thrilled with traveling for free. Maybe I should do it... I love Toronto!

Bermuda

Heck, the guys I knew growing up would tour around the country crammed in a van and they played for pizza, gas money, and crashing on people's floors. This does sound better than that. Go for it Bermuda!!
 
The problem is if people do it for free, it hurts the entire drumming community, and cheapens what we do. No machine can replicate a live drummer. If they want a real rock

and roll show, a drummers services shouldn't be given away. I know that is not what is really going to happen, there will be takers for sure, and it could turn into something else f

or that person, but still, would you work your day job for free? Musicians have been slowly and steadily digging themselves into this hole because too many are willing to work for

free. WE SHOULD NOT LET ANYONE TAKE ADVANTAGE!!!!!!! It hurts the whole sector.
 
I would do it, and I would be happy doing it. You have to get experience/exposure somehow.

I took an unpaid internship at a company and a few months later they were offering me a full-time job in the worst job market in decades. Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you.
 
I realize that there are very justifiable reasons for doing stuff for free, just realize that there is a major downside.
 
Hey, for an unemployed drummer, this is food, shelter and opportunities to gain exposure.

I know I'd take the chance, were I competent enough to at the moment.

Well, I admit, if I were otherwise financially secure and wouldn't miss my kids, I'd jump on it just for the experience.
 
Musicians have been slowly and steadily digging themselves into this hole because too many are willing to work for free.

This is true, and it hurts. However, if you are serious about reaching that next level, there is just too much competition around to sit back and let someone else take the shot. How many rock bands are there in MySpace? How many people are doing what *tunderhill* mentions in his post? Music business is simply not what it used to be. If any artist wants to "make it", everyone in the business expects him/her/them to be willing to get out there and hurt for a while trying to get things moving on his/her/their own. If you're not willing to do it, there is surely someone out there who wants it badder and will take a bite out of it.

Dig this statement from and INDIE label out in the New England area:
Lastly, we're gonna be honest here, we are looking for HARD WORKING bands, if we get your demo in the mail and we have never even HEARD of you, it is going to take more than a slick package to persuade us. We are extremely in tune to the hardcore/metal/rock/punk scene, we KNOW what is going on and what bands are out there playing all the time. Before you send us a CD to check out, try and get out on the road and bust your ass first, this is what we are looking for in a band. You need to be working just as hard as us, if not harder, and we work 20 hour days, so get crackin!​
Whoever considers these premises unfair should get out while they can and cut their losses. I've had my band for 15 years, and I think we are GOOD. However, I cannot make my dream matter more to me than my home and my family (35, wife, two girls, mortgage, etc). I have to keep it real and stay where I'm needed most: that's home. Otherwise I would have to be ready to lose more than money and sleep...

My 2 cents...
 
Sounds like a lot of fun actually.

Having done a bit of this myself, it's totally understandable that a band can't afford to pay a sub for this jaunt. Obviously they can't afford to pay themselves and being little known can't rely on merchandise sales to do much more than offset the cost of fuel, food, and drink.

The only thing that could make this tough is if the guys in the band are jerks or prima-donnas (no chance of that happening in rock-n-roll though, right?)
 
The problem is if people do it for free, it hurts the entire drumming community, and cheapens what we do. No machine can replicate a live drummer. If they want a real rock

and roll show, a drummers services shouldn't be given away. I know that is not what is really going to happen, there will be takers for sure, and it could turn into something else f

or that person, but still, would you work your day job for free? Musicians have been slowly and steadily digging themselves into this hole because too many are willing to work for

free. WE SHOULD NOT LET ANYONE TAKE ADVANTAGE!!!!!!! It hurts the whole sector.


This.

I agree the experience and exposure would be great. I admit if I were in a different spot in life, I might even take it just so I can say I was there.

But it does send a message that drummers are just expendable commodities.

I'd get if they said pay will be ridiculous low. I get that if there was pay, it would never been enough to actually make rent for anyone's place back home. But to not even offer $50 a show or even just $100 a week is kind of odd.

The tour is to support album and t-shirt sales. If the tour is successful in boosting sales to help the band a name in the business, why should only the core members of the band get a cut?
 
RV'd, fed, boozed, lots of playing experience.... shoot, sounds a lot better than my first tour. We were sitting on each others laps cramped in a tiny van with all our equipment, sleeping on strangers' floors or in our little van (in shifts). We paid for gas and food out-of-pocket since we didn't make enough at our shows for that stuff. Plus, we burned through all our day job vacations for the year to do it.

It was a blast, but mostly because we were all on the same team and suffering together.

The thing about this that doesn't sound fun is that coming into this, you're not on the same team. Drummer will be in the employment of the rest of the band. If there's any money at all to be made, it should be shared somewhat equitably. We'll see if anyone takes them up on it - I hope no one does. They sound like chumps.

They're looking for a drummer to help them stay afloat, but they don't have the decency to show any appreciation to that drummer.
 
It's a catch 22 for sure. I don't have to worry about it too much as I'm not a full time musician, but the full timers are the ones who are getting hurt the worst I would think.
 
Dis-agree with all the doubters, free is in the spirit of things.

Free as in... services without value?

No matter how much I love playing drums, why would I give that away? Does that love pay for sticks and heads? Or keep the electricity on at home? Or put gas in the tank to go to gigs and rehearsals?

Only those who can afford to give themselves away are truly free. Hmmm, I wonder how they got that way?

Bermuda
 
Tour with no money? That explains why thier former drummer split.
 
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