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Old 01-23-2012, 01:44 AM
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Duckenheimer Duckenheimer is offline
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Default Re: Does your dog or cat have conscious thought?

Originally Posted by Typo View Post
This is wrong. How could anything be only partly aware of its own existence?

Here's what I think you're missing. Yeah, of course dogs won't wake up one day self-aware and start doing incredible things.
They wouldn't be biologically capable of doing those incredible things regardless of self awareness. Unless they evolved dramatically in other areas. My entire point; which hasn't been dealt with or mentioned in your reply, is that their level of intelligence and their physical abilities would ever enable them to "conquer! Create things! Build things! " regardless of self awareness. Other evolutionary pressures must occur for a long time to get to that.

we didn't! It has taken us a couple millennia to get where we are today.
Several millenia ago we biologically had the same basic level of intelligence and physical abilities. This doesn't tackle my point in any way.

Humans started as primitive creatures, too. The huge difference that set humans apart from the very beginning, however, is that they were aware of their selves.
The huge difference was that factors were in place, including intelligence and opposable thumbs, to develop agcriculture. Self awareness may be critical in this as the sole turning point - but maybe not. I was self aware long before I was effective in other ways. Nowhere whatsoever does anything you say deal with or refute "hey, what if self awareness predated those other abilities?"

The reason why self awareness and our advancement is a linear relationship is that self-aware beings are the only ones who go above and beyond what nature gives them. Not because they have to, but because they want to. They are aware of their selves, and they want better lives for themselves.
Sorry I just can't figure how this follows at all. I see the premise and the conclusion, but the connective tissue seems to be missing completely. Again, nowhere whatsoever does anything you say deal with or refute "hey, what if self awareness predated those other essential abilities?" which was the point, or indeed the other specifics in my post. If self awareness pre-dates those abilities, your assertion suddenly makes no sense whatsoever.

Humans are not the only ones who go above and beyond "what nature gives them", if that means toolmaking and trying to lead a more stimulating life. But we are further along the continuum in those areas by a mile, no doubt about that; from which it doesn't follow "well then they can't be aware of their own existence at all".

If it just means "technological post agricultural civlisation!" then we'\re just stuck with a bunch of non sequiturs to justify how this means humans are self aware and no other animals are.

Last edited by Duckenheimer; 01-23-2012 at 01:59 AM.
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