Don't Hold Your Breath!

keep it simple said:
To me, any so called "church" that has significant assets beyond historical real estate, is full of crap, & most of those that qualify under the KIS scrutiny, are still full of crap. Believe what you will, but any organisation that asks for money without direct accountability & without latency in transparently showing it's final destination, is full of crap.
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+1 .. not entirely full of crap .. they offload crap in order to attract dollars As Larry said, if he believed himself he'd have given everything he had away to charity. He knowingly and wilfully created a situation where he KNEW people would be busted by his nonsense.

Class action!
 
Pollyanna said:
He knowingly and wilfully created a situation where he KNEW people would be busted by his nonsense.
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If we listed his church on the stock exchange he'd be considered an entrepreneur.

These people don't need a lord and saviour Pol......they just need to be protected from themselves. Evidently there is a price on stupidity......and it's over the odds.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
If we listed his church on the stock exchange he'd be considered an entrepreneur.

These people don't need a lord and saviour Pol......they just need to be protected from themselves. Evidently there is a price on stupidity......and it's over the odds.
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Yes yes, shared responsibility, Darwin Awards etc but does that absolve our religio-corporate entrepreneur of ALL responsibility? IMO he'd be done like a dinner if there was a class action, albeit with some reduction in liability due to aforementioned gross incompetence on the part of the plaintiffs.

I'm allowed to talk like this today .. it's Geek Pride Day :)
 
dwdrummerky said:
To me this is just totally sickening. This idiot should have to give up all assets to charity and then be flown far out over the ocean and dropped. Everytime I see his face I just want to hit him really hard.
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Why? He's not doing anything wrong, only the people who choose to listen.
 
jonescrusher said:
Why? He's not doing anything wrong, only the people who choose to listen.
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That's based on the premise that he had no pre-existing influence. For instance, I could run out there and say the world is ending tomorrow but I have no reputation or power. This guy has power and his millions gained directly through that power are the evidence.

With power comes responsibility.
 
This man is doing something wrong. He is a false prophet and leading simple people astray. He will be dealt with in time. He does have a great responsibility leading a flock of people.

His congregation also have the responsibility of reading their Bible, and seeing that what he is preaching is wrong, and contrary to what the Bible teaches.
 
sticks4drums said:
His congregation also have the responsibility of reading their Bible, and seeing that what he is preaching is wrong, and contrary to what the Bible teaches.
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Still no guarantees there either.

1. It was written by man (or indeed many men) over several thousand years. In early days it was actually only 'written" by dedicated scribes....then not to mention re-interpreted across various languages. Effectively making it the longest game of 'Chinese whispers' ever played. After being put through the ringer that many times, where's my guarantee that it's actually a true representation of what god wants anyway?
Personally, I see nothing absolute that it is indeed the word of god as opposed to just another interpretation of men on "god's behalf".

2. It says a lot of things in it's own right that have either been reinterpreted (or indeed totally dismissed) by changing social values, are contradictory to itself or at the very least leave more questions than answers.....causing people to turn to yet another lunatic for clarification.

I'm not trying to tell anyone who or what god is. But there's not enough contained within 66 books for me to hang my hat on.....just far too many holes in that argument, I'm afraid.
 
sticks4drums said:
Your response or mine mate. :)
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We'll both be in for a kicking if we do this here.

But if your conviction is that strong, then PM me and we'll give it a run through there. You can try and sell me "why" and I'll counter with "why not" and we can go back and forth forever amen. My parents are 'born again' mate. I've been having fun with this debate for 20 odd years......still entertains me no end.

Please....feel free to shoot me a PM if you've got anything better than "If you say so. :) You must know.". 'Cos that one really does swing both ways, don't you think? :)
 
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Pocket-full-of-gold said:
Still no guarantees there either.

1. It was written by man (or indeed many men) over several thousand years. In early days it was actually only 'written" by dedicated scribes....then not to mention re-interpreted across various languages. Effectively making it the longest game of 'Chinese whispers' ever played. After being put through the ringer that many times, where's my guarantee that it's actually a true representation of what god wants anyway?
Personally, I see nothing absolute that it is indeed the word of god as opposed to just another interpretation of men on "god's behalf".
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Well, archeology speaks for itself. Of the oldest complete Bible ever found (Dated approximately 150 A.D. i believe, correct me if I'm wrong), we have found it's content to be over 95% of the same content as any current day Bible. And wherever there is a difference, it is written on the bottom of the page. I must say, they did a fine job of preserving it's contents.

And there would have been no reason for someone to really "taint" the Bible, as it still wouldn't give one a whole lot of personal benefit. Just my opinion.
 
keep it simple said:
To me, any so called "church" that has significant assets beyond historical real estate, is full of crap, & most of those that qualify under the KIS scrutiny, are still full of crap. Believe what you will, but any organisation that asks for money without direct accountability & without latency in transparently showing it's final destination, is full of crap.
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... so ..you mean ANY CHURCH? .. they all ask for money to sell you ancient fairy-tales



.. and on another note ... this guy is not dumb .. he's obviously a very manipulative and tricky a-hole who conned people into giving him LOADS of money ... doesn't make him a good person .. .. but he's GREAT at convincing paranoid jackasses who claim to be religious and never have done their own research.. super atheist dude ( me) even knows that " the book" says that not even the angels himself will know the hour of his coming ... and he'd be in a mental institution with the millions of skitzos across the world who think they are him
 
SergiuM said:
And there would have been no reason for someone to really "taint" the Bible, as it still wouldn't give one a whole lot of personal benefit. Just my opinion.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this whole thread dedicated to "tainting the bible"? Even the believers amongst us are stating as such.

Personally, I think the reasons for doing so are varied and wide.....and the gains (especially financial) are clearly huge. But again, we'll be flogged for it here on DW (and quite rightly so, IMHO).....so again, I encourage a PM if your serious about it. :)
 
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Pollyanna said:
Thing is, should Jim Jones's estate be liable after he told his followers to drink poison - or was it just their own fault?
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If I said right now.....Pol, go on and drink this poison......it WILL kill you, but I promise you eternity in paradise.

And you actually did it. Who's the bigger dill?

In short, his estate (assuming there is one) is not liable for anything. People have to learn to be accountable for their own actions, the Jim Jones' of the world included......pure and simple.
 
In other news, it's good to be able to sit and mess around on this forum sitting in an airport at 6.30AM. Fun times all around - thanks for entertaining me at this stressful time.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
If I said right now.....Pol, go on and drink this poison......it WILL kill you, but I promise you eternity in paradise.

And you actually did it. Who's the bigger dill?

In short, his estate (assuming there is one) is not liable for anything. People have to learn to be accountable for their own actions, the Jim Jones' of the world included......pure and simple.
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Nup, not comparable at all, you big duffer :p

If you were the leader of the notorious Children of PFOG sect (known for making loud staccato noises and atrophying on web forums) and I was one of your many followers, then I'd say it's a fair comparison.

Now once you have a gig like that set up with a heap of followers then you have a responsibility. You can't pretend those connections don't exist and treat it like Person A dealing with Person B, no matter how bone-headed the connection is. There are known and inevitable consequences when you do tell some logic-blind sect member something that can lead them to harm.

As it is, all you are to me is a web pal who seems to either drink too much or wants to drink too much ... so if you told me to go drink poison I'd say, "Your shout" :)
 
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