Originally Posted by mattsmith
I'm into Madlib as well. They do sort of pull on the jazz strings don't they?
This sidebar discussion about metal is interesting to me too. I've always found it amazing how their hardcore aficianados pigeonhole the genres with the same ferocity of the jazz aficiandos. You would have thought they would have learned from the jazz crowd that flailing away at what everybody thinks is and isn't only alienates your scene and dooms your stuff to underground status. Despite the extroidinary differences in the music itself, the only difference between the mindsets of jazz and metal lover /not always the musicians/ is that the metal guys think the jazz guys are after them too whereas the jazz crowd doesn't care what the metal guys think of them. IMO this is a recipe for failure. I've never been any particular fan of the metal stuff of any genre or classification, but I certainly respect those drummers. There's obviously some serious talent there, so it's ashame to see the metal self destruct button always on.
Metal is incredibly diverse, I doubt your idea or knowledge of the subject covers a lot of it, there is stuff within the metal spectrum that is also within the jazz spectrum, the whole genre is rife with avant-garde and diverse influences, that is where so many of the arguments stem from.
You mentioned not pigeon-holing things, but then completely contradicted yourself by pigeon-holing metal lovers. A lot of metal guys do not care what the jazz crowd think, and listen to/like jazz. Some care, but there are jazz musicians who are under the impression metal is nothing but mindless noise and promotes hatred and violence. Plenty of metal musicians also play traditional styles of jazz or classical, I know a cellist from the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra who plays in a doom/death band.
I don't think metal is self-destructive at all, some metal-heads/bands/artists are, obviously when some people are playing with fire, pouring out emotions, they're going to get burnt, it is the same with any music, or even film, that plays heavily on intensity.
A lot of metal is very progressive, free-thinking and full of musical open-mindedness. I'm repeating myself with this second example, but the violinist of local Melbourne metal band Ne Obliviscaris has a Bachelor of Honours in Performance Music and recently spent time with Jean-Luc Ponty when he was in Australia.
I think you'll find stereotyping all metal fans a mistake, if anything, I'm a testament to that, I listen to a lot of different music in any given day, including some very heavy metal and some quite mild jazz and post rock. I was playing A Silver Mt. Zion yesterday, along with Miles Davis, Chet Baker and Isahn (the solo project of the frontman from Emperor, a very big name in the Norwegian black metal scene).
The root of all this was me trying to make a point that not all Hip Hop is what you hear on the radio and not all Metal is like what you are exposed to.