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Old 09-14-2013, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Can there be free will in a world where pre-destiny exists?

Originally Posted by larryace View Post
And once again, your take is polar opposite of my take. I just cannot accept the notion that everything here is disconnected from everything else. So your sentence, "very little of what happens makes sense or reason" implies that there is at least some part which does make sense and does have reason. You can't have it both ways Martin. Either it makes sense or it doesn't. I'm assuming that if you had to pick a side, you'd pick "makes no sense, has no reason". Which is fine, that's your take, and I am not trying to change that.

I just can't get on board with that personally. Life seems too organized to be random. The laws of physics are a good example. Certain things just don't happen. For example, magnetic lines of force will never cross one another, ever, no matter what. How can that be in a random state? Nature has rules. Laws it follows. Random stuff doesn't follow anything, except randomness.
Well, lots and lots of things do make sense and happen for reasons. The movement of tides, the flow of rivers, people organizing themselves into groups, developing technology, chatting on message boards - all of these things make sense and we can demonstrate it.

But lots of stuff does not make sense. Some of that is because we don't understand the physical laws behind a phenomenon, even though we make use of it. Gravity is a good example - we still can't really understand it, but we've been aware of it and using it for a long time. Other things are simply random, like why lightning strikes one person and not another or why any particular person wins the lottery. Other things fall in a between area; we know hurricanes, earthquakes and tornadoes will happen (due to well-understood physical laws) but we can't predict with much certainty when, where and how much. Physical laws ordain larger process, but the particular results are random. The best we can do is develop mathematical models to predict general outcomes.

There's a tendency, though, for some people to say, "This doesn't seem to make sense, but it should. So there must be some supernatural force behind it/God wanted it/there is some giant hand of predestiny." No, there's not. Either we don't understand the physical laws yet, or it is truly random.
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