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Old 09-08-2013, 08:03 AM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: Roland SPD-SX Sampling vs. Octapad SPD-30 Phrasing, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLeadFoot View Post
OK, so, it sounds like to "phrase" means to record something you're playing on the pads, while sampling is to playback a "sample" of an already existing sound or sequence of sounds, for example, a line in a chorus of a song (regardless of whether it is a vocal or instrumental).

That said, it would appear that in this context the term "phrasing" is really more like recording something for playback, more like "looping", correct? If so, then why the heck is it called a "phrase"? To me, a "phrase" is more like a line of the chorus like I described above, and recording that "phrase" for playback is one example of what you can do with "sampling".

I don't understand what "layered" means.

So, Blackstone, I'm not sure I understand why you need more than one sound, or "velocity layered" sounds, on a single pad in order to play one of these units as a mini-kit. Can you please elaborate here?

Wildbill, from what you said, it sounds like the SX is the ONLY unit of the 3 that can actually create "sample" sounds. Does that mean it can create a keyborad sound and bass and horns, as well as drum sounds? It that what you meant when you said "If you want actual sampling, you'd have to get the SPD-SX"?

That said, why did you get the Yamaha over the SX? Because of what Blackstone said about the SX NOT having hi-hat control?

Lastly, on this post, at least :-), it sounds like it's safe to say that all three fall short of what they really could be, in some way:

1) Wildbill says the Yamaha cannot record "layered" phrases, whatever that means (remember, I don't know what a layer is, but if that was pointed out, it must be significant).

2) In addition to being able to create and save sounds, the SX also can be used to emulate drum sounds when hitting the pads, but the included trigger inputs can't help provide hit-hat control? Sounds like that was purposely done by Roland, so the SX doesn't kill SPD-30 sales. Sounds like the same Horse Manure move Apple pulled when they purposely crippled the first iPhone by NOT including cut and paste, which is the very thing that put Apple on the map to begin with!

3) The Octapad sounds like it is designed specifically to be an electric-drum-kit-capable pad unit, which includes the looping, but in a more convenient, compact form factor opposed to having a brain and separate pads and stands, like a electric drum kit requires. The only reason this unit falls short is because it's SX cousin is almost the same thing but has sampling playback, so you end up wishing the Octapad had it, too.

I want a pad unit that, when applicable, can be:

1) Integrated into my acoustic setup
2) Played like a mini drum kit, at times
2) Can be used to playback samples, loops, and "phrases" of anything I want

So far, it sounds like the Yamaha comes closest to this. But before I think that is true, Wildbill, can you please elaborate on the limitation of only being able to record and loop single layers?

"... sampling is to playback a "sample" of an already existing sound or sequence of sounds, for example, a line in a chorus of a song (regardless of whether it is a vocal or instrumental..."

That's sample playback. To sample a chorus would mean to record it through audio inputs. Only the SX can do that. With the Yamaha, you could sample the chorus with a computer or something else, transfer it to a usb stick and load it in the multi from the stick.

"...I don't understand what "layered" means..."

Layered (in the context of Roland's 'phrase'), means you hit record, play the pads to record them, and then do it again to add another layer. (Refer to the spd-30 manual).

Yamaha uses the term 'pattern', to refer to recording something played from the pads. It can do this, and you can play the pattern back later by assigning it to and then hitting a single pad.
But you can't add an extra layer (pattern) in addition to the first one, without switching kits to get a different pattern.
(Refer to the Yamaha DTX Multi-12 manual).

Layered (in the context of layering sounds on a single pad) means to assign sounds that can be velocity switched. With the spd-30, you can layer two sounds, and with the multi-12, you can layer 4 sounds.
(Refer to the respective manuals).
You don't actually need velocity switched layers to use a unit as a mini-kit, but they can make it a lot more expressive and realistic sounding.


IMO, layered phrases and single layer patterns are kind of gimmicky. I tried them to see how they work, but never use them. That said, these are for home use. I don't play gigs.

Both the multi-12 and the spd-30 can use hi-hat pedals, but neither one reacts or sounds like a real hi hat. If you want real hi hat sounds and feel, use a real hi -hat.
(refer to the manuals to read about hi hat control).



"...I want a pad unit that, when applicable, can be:

1) Integrated into my acoustic setup
2) Played like a mini drum kit, at times
2) Can be used to playback samples, loops, and "phrases" of anything I want..."


Your choice for that is between the SPD-SX and the Multi-12. The spd-30 can't load or playback external samples.
(Refer to the respective manuals).

I don't know anything about the SPD-SX, or its ability to use hi hat control. You'd have to refer to its manual for that.



.

Last edited by wildbill; 10-30-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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