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Old 08-15-2013, 09:40 AM
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Reggae_Mangle Reggae_Mangle is offline
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Default Re: Can there be free will in a world where pre-destiny exists?

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
The slippery slope is an argumental fallacy that debunks the random series of events. The user who linked these events is guilty of using a slippery slope. Perhaps my wording left a bit to be desired.
Perhaps we lack the perspective to join all the dots, like some dotard infant that's having difficulty with his colouring book. Ability to grasp something does not mean we simplify it to whatever we're capable of explaining.
When I use the words, perhaps, I leave open the door to debate or rather, to an alternative proof. Do we indeed have all the answers? Highly doubtful, even our basic laws of physics are coming unravelled every passing day.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Show me an effect that has no cause.
Some children are born deformed for no fault of their own or their parents. They are genetically sound, they don't do drugs, well fed and bred and haven't been exposed to chemicals. Is it evolution? Random mutation? God's love and God's play?

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I swear those things behave as though they are scared shitless when the Sandal of Destiny comes crashing down. They pick up their dead and wounded (presumably waste not want not). They adjust their trail when I make one trail too hazardous. They keep trying to get in the house - and after I wipe the intruders out they stop for a while. Then they try again later.
Don't sweep the floor to spare the ants. Cover the lamps to spare the moths.

If the ants are coming toward the house, just take a little sugar and sprinkle it away from your property and they will go there instead. Maybe a daub of honey if you're feeling generous.

Always remember the little people. Life in their limited lifespan, with all of its pleasures and pain from their unique sensory perspective. If you prick us, we bleed, if you wrong us, shall we not avenge? Maybe that's why they keep trying to get in the house. To get you! :P

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Chaos theory and quantum strangeness seem to defy the notion of destiny, but chaos theory is really just a practical means of black boxing things that are too complex to understand ... at the moment. I suspect we will one day make sense of the factors (and formulas) behind quantum strangeness too.
Kind of funny how there are "no straight lines in nature". I think we should perhaps consider a philosophical view of that truth, rather than a geometric one. I certainly think that events can be considered random to the extent that we cannot predict every single possibility, except perhaps esoterically. And even then, with no great precision and with the possibility that a sky dragon will one day arrive and wipe us out in our beds.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
I'm sorry but your ideas of destiny and determinism are skewed. The definition of destiny is a predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control. By definition alone we humans have no say in our destiny, therefore our ability to make choices is mute. Something cannot be destined for you and still allow breathing room for choices.

Determinism states that for everything that happens, there are conditions such that, given those conditions, nothing else could happen. For example, I choose to punch someone in the face. There is a choice. Determinism dictates that since my fist contacted their face, they will feel the force of my fist on their face. This is what determinism states. Its A+B=C. But A and B have the option to be a choice. And in events of no choice, such as a car wreck, determinism only dictates twisted metal, not the fate of all those involved. Cars might be totaled, maybe not. People may die, maybe not. It is cause and effect, with philosophical ideas behind it.

Destiny does not take away your power of choice. It merely means that whatever choice you make, you will inevitably happen on a singular event or circumstance that is in your path. Thinking of time as being linear makes sense. But the scale can be subdivided in many ways.

You may punch someone in the face. You may be involved in a car wreck. Was it written? Perhaps you're not important enough to be kept in the loop on the behind the scenes cosmic comedy.

I said perhaps again, because I accept that I don't have all the answers and I seriously doubt anyone else on this planet does. To reiterate the point about science in no way being absolute truth, I think Stephen Hawking lost a bet in 2004, Einstein's theories are still being contested and gravity might not be exactly the way we envisage it if we go by black holes.

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
The thing that confuses me with "everything is an illusion" and the holographic principle etc is that if a piano drops on your head from a first storey balcony it makes no difference whether you perceive it or not ...
This is a really weird "theory", but I believe a lot of people view life this way.

There's an awesome Pearl Jam song called "I'm Open" where the narrator in the song says when he was a boy, he thought that the moon was always following him. "Centre of your own universe" is what I'd call that kind of thinking, not because it's factually wrong, but because we often internalise what's happening around us to the most basic "what does it mean to me?"

Or to stretch it further "everything is happening because of me, this is all being done for MY benefit or detriment." When the "dreamer" dies, everything and everyone else ceases to matter. They are, for all practical purposes, dead, at least from the dreamer's perspective.
"... As war machine, crushes their balls, God have mercy..."
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