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Old 08-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: Can there be free will in a world where pre-destiny exists?

Originally Posted by viva_nate View Post
It would mean that destiny has consciousness, which would have some odd repercussions.

"Destiny" and "determinism" are two different things, though. Choice has to be a crucial element in destiny, because destinies can be fulfilled; it's a belief system. Determined systems don't have room for choice in the sense that we can make a choice that isn't determined by the system itself - it's a mechanism that exists outside belief. This is why compatibilist systems tend to suggest local or social determinism.
Thanks for the clarification, Nate. I have enjoyed your posts a lot but haven't replied because I couldn't keep up :)

Okay, so I spoke about determinism, not destiny. Even if everything is inevitable, being based on past events, since nobody knows everything life keeps surprising us. So neither destiny nor determinism really matters.

Actually, there is maybe one type of destiny that is real and significant. When enough people believe in particular destiny or outcome, they make it happen. The stock market is an example.

Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I was thinking on a more macro scale. It's a given that we all must die. As a race, I think our destiny is laid out. All the little things that make up day to day life, are up for grabs, that's our free will.
Another way of saying it ... we are slaves ... insignificant expendable cogs in the machinery of the Universe, driven to churn energy and information around for a short time before we are destroyed and replaced. We worry about having a good life - being a good person etc but that only matter on a personal level. The Universe doesn't care - just by living you are fulfilling your function, ie. churning stuff around lol

However, the Universe, in Its benevolence, throws us scraps of free will that are left over once we're done working through the endless stream of unconscious compulsions that drive us :)

Thought bubbles ...

Originally Posted by larryace View Post
(JMO) But from a macro view of our race, I think our destiny is sealed. The next step in our evolution, like Anon says, is that we merge with machines. I mean, it's already here. If we make it past this technological adolescence without wiping out our race, then I think it's inevitable that humans will populate other places in the solar system/galaxy besides Planet Earth.

Meanwhile, shall I have scrambled or over easy? I think I'll exercise my free will and just to throw a spanner in the works, I'll say pancakes. But I will end up doing scrambled. Free will in action. Men love scrambled. (obscure movie quote, any guesses? hint, Shelly Long said it)
That could be predicted too, Larry. Not that it matters. Just saying :)

Have you seen the Future Timeline website? When you think how much things have changed in just the last 20 years ... given that the pace of change is increasing, in another 20 years we won't know the joint. It seems like the good things in the world are getting better (social progress, technology, economic systems) and the bad things are getting worse (crowding, inequality, resources and natural die-back).


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