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Old 08-10-2013, 07:27 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: Can there be free will in a world where pre-destiny exists?

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Look up the Miller-Urey experiment and Panspermia.
Even with Panspermia, you still need that first replication.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
The conditions for life had to exist before life itself. If life is such a constant in the universe, how come we haven't found any anywhere else, even locally?
Haha - got me there. Obviously, I don't know any more than anyone else and life is so far only found on Earth, but its existence cannot be denied! I don't think it's any more of a fluke than the fact that stars and planets form. They only form if conditions are right too.

Personally, if I was a betting gal I'd put money on us discovering microscopic life in the water tables under the Martian surface. As 8 said, there could also be forms of life out there that we are unable to recognise or detect.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Why would a creature of any form or intelligence appear? To think we are special in a world full of life is rather selfish in my views. Just because we humans are more aware does not make us any better than, say, a cockroach. They have been here a whole lot longer than we have, will be here longer, and can evolve and adapt at will. Natural selection will favor the roach over the human.
Everyone on this forum plays music. No cockroaches play music. Do you need more?

Today's computers are better than those developed in the 1960s. In the same way we are better than cockroaches.

When it comes down to species survival, bacteria will kick cockroaches' sorry spiky asses (apart from the fine specimen in my avatar). They are the most resilient and successful creatures as a group.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
I can accept that things work and we don't know why, but cannot accept a screwball idea to fill the void until the correct answer is revealed.
That's why I reject pure rationalism, which is another screwball idea that pretends to know. Rationalism must be tempered by acknowledgement of the mysteries rather than to brush them under the carpet because they are inconvenient. That's as bad as religion ignoring inconvenient scientific observation, eg. evolution.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
So then why do we continue to lie to ourselves until science catches up? Again, if something works but you don't know why, that's okay. Would you rather discover the correct answer and be amazed at it once it gets here, or be disappointed in yourself for believing in something that wasn't true?
I think you need some specific examples so you can trust me a bit more ... really, I am not a mad religious voodoo child, Mr IP.

Let's take the lie of optimism in sports. Sportspeople have faith that they will win every game, even when the evidence is against them. But they need that attitude to perform at their peak. How about the lie of the placebo effect? We use this lie constantly - it is an essential part of drug testing. Or should we wait until we understand it better?

Take another example - religiosity amongst underprivileged, uneducated people. Often religion is their only comfort in unimaginably difficult lives. We can't tell these people to wait until we have the solutions to rational manipulation of brain dynamics to produce dopamine - they need their salve now. Religion fills the void (despite its many odious aspects). Humans have a lot of evolving to do and in the interim we will devise bandaid solutions to keep us going.

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
So if we don't destroy ourselves first, we will all eventually become god-like? Seriously, no matter how hard I try, the pain in my knee just wont go away, and all the mental regulation in the world wont keep gravity and friction from destroying it a little more each time I move it.
I think we will become more true to ourselves, more in control, less subject to blundering, which is the trend so far.

Humans have achieved great amounts of control of ourselves and environment as compared with other animals, but nowhere near our potential. We go to rehab, diet, take nicotine substitutes, have misunderstandings, temper tantrums, forget things, go into denial, etc etc - endless examples of us not being in control.

As time goes on, those of us who are safe from the coming mass population correction will gain greater mastery through our ever closer link with machines. And I think that will be special ...


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