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Old 08-09-2013, 10:25 PM
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MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is offline
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
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Default Re: Can there be free will in a world where pre-destiny exists?

Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I have something called squirrel theory - squirrels just go about gathering their nuts. day in, day out. Nothing seems to bother them, except crossing a road or a natural bird of prey, of which they are oblivious. No destiny there - cause and effect. But they seem quite content (who knows maybe they are starving).

Humans do not ascribe to squirrel theory. They have to pick everything apart. There is an upside to that, as we are possibly the most adaptable species ever. But it may be only human ego to think that. In paleontology the billion year rock record shows many species rise to great success, to even dominate......and then fall. Tens of examples.
Squirrels are very crafty, and they do learn. I've spent much much time watching, stalking, and hunting squirrel. But yes it does seem to be all cause and effect based around food, mating, nest building, and survival.

I'm afraid we will be one of those examples sooner than we think.

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I would say that animals share many of the issues we have. Put yourself in their paws for a moment. Think of all the fears you had as a child because of your limited understanding of cause and effect, eg. animals and small children are afraid of the thunder - they sense the power but don't realise it's harmless.

We hear birds singing and the chances are that it's a bird telling another bird to f* off. We say "Isn't that beautiful?".
I can't relate to the thunder, I was never scared of it and my 3 dogs aren't either, but we live in tornado alley so big storms are pretty regular here. I was terrified of fire as a small kid after watching a house burn down. It wasn't the fire itself that scared me, but the thought of my house burning down. Fear of the unknown. Not the cause or effect, but the ending result.

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle View Post
How about the butterfly effect? Sort of like a butterfly fluttering in China results in mass floods in Texas. Cause and effect on a scale that could only be attributed to cosmic confluence.

The universe has an attitude.
The butterfly effect is more of a domino effect than anything. The butterfly flaps its wings in China. The ripple caused by the flapping creates turbulence that effects the atmospheric conditions in its specific local. The conditions then change...yadda yadda yadda...a flood in Texas. This is a slippery slope and is an unacceptable reason for accepting something as factual in an argument. Just because that butterfly flaps its wings, in no way does it absolutely mean that there will be a flood in Texas. It makes for cool movies though.
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