Originally Posted by Bonham to the moon
Of course TheDuke, this all your opinion. With every drummer that has ever been, theres going to be a guy that comes out that is faster, and can imitate them. But what it comes down to is originality. Every solo that has ever been played can be stripped down and imitated, but its the person who created it that needs the credit. A guy whos been playing for a couple of months might be able to play the groove from When the Levee breaks, but it was Bonham who heard the rest of the song and layed it down originally. i know that Bonham didnt have the greatest chops of all time, there may be a few cats that can play Pat's Delight, but its Bonham that created the masterpiece. You say that Elvin Jones cannot be imitated stylistically, how so? i've heard many people lay down a groove that imitates Elvin. You also say that those who have gotten close to Elvin's playing still cant get it exactly. I've yet to hear anyone get Bonhams groove exactly, unless they added effects in the studio. And if anyone does get it exactly, as with any other drummer, it is because they have studied and transcribed their playing, not because they have come up with it themselves. If you studied any drummer for long enough and transcribed their songs note for note, than you can imitate them exactly, even Rich, Jones.
Uh, well, it's actually not a subjective matter of opinion. I wasn't really calling into question John Bohnam's originality, at all. Nor his greatness- just because someone can be imitated doesn't mean someone isn't great- in fact I think if someone is imitated it can mean right away they are great. I was actually refuting your illogical statement that there are too many secrets behind Bonzo's drumming to figure his stuff out. This is very untrue. If you play along to records enough, or loops of Bonzo grooves, and figure out his chops, you will figure out Bonzo. You can't really, in respect, disagree with me, because this is the way it has always been done. Abe Laboriel, I'm sure, can do an amazing John Bohnam impression. I can clearly see and hear it in his playing. You're just taking my remarks as being disparaging, because, you know, anything less than TOTAL worship of John Bohnam is not right.
In respect to Elvin Jones, Elvin Jones is untouchable because of the way he could yank things in and out of time and come back to the beat. He could reef on beats so hard and come right back in on time. I've never heard anyone with the exception of Roy Haynes who is able to play so elastically. Roy can't even do it as well as Elvin. His concept of time is alien- no one has any idea how he thinks about groove or time therefore no one can figure out how he plays the way he does. There are some Elvin things that are very doable- but not most of the more extreme stuff. I haven't heard anyone do the stuff that he does. With Bohnam, or any other great groove drummer, I can understand what they're playing... example "Okay, Bohnam is counting quarter notes and emphasizing 2 and 4 on Rock and Roll". Or, "Okay Bohnam is emphasizing offbeats on Immigrant Song" to name a couple. If you can get the beat and time and feel it like the drummer is, you can play it exactly like him. No one knows what Elvin was thinking. When he played swing he grunted offbeats- you can hear him on some albums doing that loudly. But for the harder stuff, drum scholars are without a clue.
As for Buddy, he had an X factor- a once in a generation virtuositic abillity that hasn't been equaled. He is the Mozart, Paganini, Parker or Gould of our instrument- he will not be equaled.