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Old 12-19-2012, 09:14 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
In the UK, we have a routinely unarmed Police force. Gun crime is also fortunately only a very niche issue and we have specialist units that deal with armed offences. The justification is below:

I've always been of the view that one gun in a potentially violent situation leads to a lower potential for being shot. Both sides having guns merely raises the stakes and in hazardous situations, simply increases the chance of being shot from panicking the criminal. This notion of 'defending oneself' is exactly the reason why knife crime in South London has become a problem. One teenager carries a knife, the others start carrying to 'defend' and then all of a sudden you have a spate of stabbings. The same is true of guns.
But in that case....the great majority of guns were illegal,and not posessed lawfully.This was also the case in all....yes all of these shootings.The guns were illegally posessed.

Before I was assigned to crime scene,I was assigned to the ballistics unit.we exanined and test fired all firearms that were vouchered by the NYPD, in
arrest,surrender,investigated and found circustances.Around that 3% of firearms that were used to commit a crime are legally possessed.All others are posessed illegally.

NY City has tough gun control laws,and is one of the only citys in the country,where to need a permit for a long gun.The only handgun carry permits that are issued are generally fot retired law enforcment,and only 200 or so to civilians,in a city of over 8 million people.

In my second year on the job I was shot in my vest ,buy a emotionally disturbed person,who wanted to commit suicide.My partner and I were trying to talk him down.He wouldn't open the door,so we were there for quite a while,when he suddenly fired 4 shots through the door.It was a heavy metal skinned,lined door and two of the shots hit me in the chest.I was wearing my bullet resistant vest,which stopped the rounds.This individual I believe was originally planning suicide by cop,but later changed his mind,and later took his own life by shooting himself in the head.He was one of the first recorded AIDS cases in NY.

How that relates to this is,I'm also and NRA and NY state firearms instructor.I have taught hundreds of cops and civilians,including Boy Scouts how to shoot.I'ts also about safety,common sense,and respect.I continue to teach to this day..

I can't tell you how many times I've said this.....owning a gun is a life style change,and if you can't or won't wrap your head around that,then you have no business even being anywhere near a firearm.I have on occasion called the NYPD license section and told them,NOT to issue some of my students a permit.I have taught staunch anti gunners about guns,safety,common sense possession and marksmanship.The great majority changed their minds and saw the other side of the coin.

As much as I believe in civilian ownership of firearms,just because you can do something,dosen't mean you should.Judgement , temperment,respect,and mental stability should be factored in as well as training.BEFORE legally posessing a firarm

Just as an aside,when I last visited London,as a retired NYPD,I was curious to know how the Metropolitan police felt about being armed and unarmed.In and around St James and Buckingham Palace,there were pleny of armed,yes armed PCs.I spock to a sergeant who was standing a post close to St James.I told him who I was,and said ,do you mind if I ask you a question.I said I notice your carrying a Glock 19,truthfully,don't you feel better with that on your hip?
He just smiled broadley ,and said..I feel the same way you do detective.The UK is one of a very few parts of the world that dosen't routinely arm it's police,except for the PSNI where all officers are armed.

There are lots of arguments to he heard.There will be extreme arguments on either side.Clearly we need to be more active in our childrens lives,and become more educated as teachers and parents.We also need to recognize the signs of mental illness when we see them,and take immeadiate and positive action.

Unfortunately,parenting in the US at least is the largest growing competitive sport in the country.The not me,my child is perfect, blinders on, parent numbers are growing.Parents seem to believe that schools,teachers,TV and the internet should be raising their children,in a time when parents and the family unit need to reinforce education with interaction,love an just plain common sense.As a retired boy scout leader,I can tell you as a nation,parents are failing their children.We used to joke the BSA (boy scouts of America),actually stood for Baby Sitters Are us.

Andy...I just need to ask what safety catch you're refering to since all modern quality firearms have actually,numerous built in automatic,as well as manually operated safeties.The Glock pistol as an example has a safe action system which consists of a trigger safety,a half cock disconector,and a drop safety,which are built in,tamperproof and work automaticly.

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 12-20-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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