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Old 12-17-2012, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Pushing the envelope of this forum, non drum related

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Plenty of anti-alcohol misinformation here.
Yea, like what?
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When was the last time a child died from ingesting alcohol?
Are you just trying to wind me up? I don't get it. A quick google search could quickly tell you what you already know. Alcohol is a patently more dangerous intoxicant than cannabis in literally every single way. http://www.ehow.com/about_5410509_st...poisoning.html hundreds of kids per year.

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Cannabis sends an average of 1,000 people a day to the hospital in the US even if they ingest it knowingly.
This is absolutely not true. This link cites the proven mis-leading "DAWN" studies, and cites them in mis-leading ways.
Here:
"The federal DAWN report itself notes that reports of marijuana do not mean people are going to the hospital for a marijuana overdose, it only means that people going to the hospital for a drug overdose mention marijuana as a drug they use. Since marijuana is the most widely used illegal drug it is the most mentioned illicit drug when people come to the hospital for any reason. Also, alcohol-in-combination is a larger problem than any of the illicit drugs."

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If cannabis were legal, I believe we'd see that number increase.
I believe you're right. People would be able to be honest with their doctors about something that they do, but can't fully report because of it's schedule 1 status. Again, though, pot just isn't that dangerous... Nobody actually needs to go to the emergency room from it, because it's not actually going to hurt anyone by itself.

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I'm sure alcohol sends at least that many drinkers to the emergency room as well - so are you proposing banning it?
And I'm sure you're well aware that you're minimizing here to an extent that's almost funny. Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, with demonstrable harm to society at every level.
40% of all suicide attempts are alcohol-related
54% of all violent crimes are alcohol-related
60% of all emergency room admissions are alcohol-related
80% of all domestic disputes are alcohol-related

And, no, I do not propose banning things just because they are potentially dangerous if abused or mis-used. This is your stance, not mine. I am looking at this logically and overall. There is a hell of a lot less gun violence in the UK, where they are banned... But that doesn't mean that I will support banning useful tools and protective devices for everyone.

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People can and do die from ingesting too much water at once.
Besides being silly, I'm aware this is true. You've actually just called attention to the fact that technically, water is a more dangerous substance to abuse than pot, let alone alcohol. One can kill you, the other cannot.

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The issue for me is not lethality alone.
Nor for I, and it should not be. Lots of fun activities are potentially lethal. It appears you may have missed my point, being that we should not be wasting all the time, effort, money and lives on something that is a simply mild intoxicant, with no lethal dose, and is proven to cause less societal harm than other currently legal, taxed, and controlled intoxicants.

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Cannabis is rightfully illegal and I will support efforts to keep the laws as they are.
This is your opinion, but based on our conversation here, your opinion is based on literally no facts, let alone the common sense of this issue. The illegality causes more harm to us than the "substance" itself. Pair that with the fact that we are literally making no ground in this ridiculous war against pot, and what is the point?

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At the same time, under the American Constitution, I think states should have the rights to regulate this sort of thing.
No argument here.

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If Washington or Colorado want to make cannabis illegal, then they should have the right to do it.
I think you meant legal, and again, I agree. People are starting to understand that prohibition of this is causing more harm than the actual substance. Not only that, as with alcohol prohibition, it's simply not popular, and a great many people do not want to waste any more on this.

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I think they're making a mistake and we'll see over the next few years which of us is proven right.
There's no mistake. This frees up law enforcement to focus on other things, actually dangerous drugs, violent crime, and things that really harm us, like drunk driving.
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