DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php)
-   Heads and Sticks (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89460)

PeteN 04-06-2012 05:17 PM

Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
As the subject states which balance of Attack vs Sustain do you prefer? One side of me loves two ply heads for more attack while the other side is loving single ply heads for more sustain and tone.

Mr drumming style varies from rock, blues, pop, and even some latin stuff. On single ply heads I miss the attack when I get busy on the toms but when I use them in a linear/melodic fashion they shine. The double ply heads seem to shine when I get busy on the heads and are good for linear stuff just not as good as the single ply heads.

So I understand there is a compromise to be made for me and those who like to play busy yet still melodic on the toms.

My question is....Do you utilize a different technique to get more attack out of a single ply head when you want to get busy?

My chops sound somewhat muddy at times when I get busy on single ply tom heads yet they sound solid when I get busy on double ply heads.

I've been working on slow clean sticking exercises on my toms just to try and be precise to get good attack that registers in my ears on single ply heads from the drivers seat but am curious to hear about your thoughts and experiences as well.

I also understand that I can tune a single ply head for more attack (lower tuning) and tune a double ply head for more sustain and tone (higher tuning) but when "feel" is an important factor in your tuning it just seems counter intuitive to go that route.

I'm having a hard time making a compromise between the two types of heads...help!!!!

Thanks

AndyMC 04-06-2012 07:15 PM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Try a thick single ply, it cuts a bit of the overtones but leaves sustain so the notes are a little clearer, but eventually you will have to compromise, or have 2 sets of toms lol.

tard 04-06-2012 09:41 PM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Single ply heads have more attack and sustain than 2 ply heads. A 2 ply might sound like it has more attack from behind the kit due to the reduced resonance but a single ply head actually has more attack.

EvansSpecialist 04-09-2012 02:38 PM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Personally, I've been hooked on the heavier single-ply heads for a while now. I used to be all about the coated G2 or clear EC2S (depending on the situation) but got hooked on the G Plus and the new G14 back in November. The thicker single-ply heads (particularly the G14) seem to offer more attack than a typical single-ply head but response like you would expect out of a thinner 10mil head.

As far as technique goes, when playing faster rhythmic passages, I'm careful to play with more of a staccato articulation in order to allow the head to speak during each hit- making sure that the stick doesn't spend any longer than it needs to on the head. Playing staccato, or "separated," will help you achieve better rhythmic definition. I'd recommend continuing what you're doing with sticking exercises on the toms (play them on each one too) with a metronome and at various tempi.

Cheers!

PeteN 04-10-2012 02:07 AM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist (Post 985657)
Personally, I've been hooked on the heavier single-ply heads for a while now. I used to be all about the coated G2 or clear EC2S (depending on the situation) but got hooked on the G Plus and the new G14 back in November. The thicker single-ply heads (particularly the G14) seem to offer more attack than a typical single-ply head but response like you would expect out of a thinner 10mil head.

As far as technique goes, when playing faster rhythmic passages, I'm careful to play with more of a staccato articulation in order to allow the head to speak during each hit- making sure that the stick doesn't spend any longer than it needs to on the head. Playing staccato, or "separated," will help you achieve better rhythmic definition. I'd recommend continuing what you're doing with sticking exercises on the toms (play them on each one too) with a metronome and at various tempi.

Cheers!

At last someone answers one of the more important questions I had on technique!!! :-)

oh...and g14's are on my list as well, thanks for the reply Evans Specialist

veggo32 04-10-2012 02:48 AM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tard (Post 984656)
Single ply heads have more attack and sustain than 2 ply heads. A 2 ply might sound like it has more attack from behind the kit due to the reduced resonance but a single ply head actually has more attack.


Thats what I thought too. I'm happy with 2 ply clears or singly ply coated on toms, its a flip.

Drumolator 04-10-2012 11:59 PM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
The G14 may be what I am looking for too. However, remember that in between 2-ply and 1-ply are heads with dots. I used to use "dot" heads for a long time. If they were good enough for Tony Williams, they are good enough for me. Remo, Evans, Ludwig, and Aquarian all make heads with dots. Peace, goodwill, and blues.

cangaroo 09-22-2013 11:26 AM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Hi there, i'm upping this thread cause the title and the argument was exactly what i was wondering about.

Currently i play an old slingerland set (13 16 22) with Ambassador heads. The tone is good but too much round.

Since i'm a beginner, i thought the thinner the head, the more attack you have. Instead looking at Evans website i've found out that following their tone graphs, the coated G2 has far more attack than the G1.

Reading this thread make me confused because some of you suggests that that my original idea is true, but Evans are not of the same idea.

Anyway, what kind of head you suggest for a vintage sound with more punch and less sustain ? I'm tempted to try Ambassadors X or Emperor on the tom and floor batter side.

Thank you

EvansSpecialist 09-22-2013 08:52 PM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cangaroo (Post 1182732)
Hi there, i'm upping this thread cause the title and the argument was exactly what i was wondering about.

Currently i play an old slingerland set (13 16 22) with Ambassador heads. The tone is good but too much round.

Since i'm a beginner, i thought the thinner the head, the more attack you have. Instead looking at Evans website i've found out that following their tone graphs, the coated G2 has far more attack than the G1.

Reading this thread make me confused because some of you suggests that that my original idea is true, but Evans are not of the same idea.

Anyway, what kind of head you suggest for a vintage sound with more punch and less sustain ? I'm tempted to try Ambassadors X or Emperor on the tom and floor batter side.

Thank you

Generally speaking, thicker heads tend to yield more stick sound (more attack). Two-ply heads often have more attack than single-ply heads due to the contact made between both free-floating plies upon impact. That being said, there are plenty of tuning techniques and head choices that could make a single-ply head yield greater attack and a two-ply.

As far as heads for your Slingerland kit, I'd recommend a combination of 12mil and 14mil. Try out the Evans G12 on your 13" tom and the G14 on your floor tom. Another great option to check out would be G2 (two-ply) over G12 on both of the toms. This will provide a bit more of a fat sound when tuned low. The Level 360 collar will allow you to get the maximum tuning range out of the drums and also make tuning far easier.

Cheers!

XplosiveDrummer 09-23-2013 03:25 AM

Re: Attack vs Sustain - Double vs Single ply Heads
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cangaroo (Post 1182732)
Anyway, what kind of head you suggest for a vintage sound with more punch and less sustain ? I'm tempted to try Ambassadors X or Emperor on the tom and floor batter side.

Thank you

Ambassador X, Emperor or Vintage Emperor in clear or coated over a Diplomat for a sensitive response with a lot of resonance but quick decay and/or little sustain. In fact I personally am going to try a Diplomat setup with Vintage Emperors as batters asap. I can't wait to hear my 16" FT with that setup! Loud, sensitive, deep and a quick punch is what I have in my mind and I'm sure with Remo heads I will achieve that easily as they are fantastic heads! Can't go wrong with Remo, ever.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com