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-   -   Metallica with Cliff.... (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88013)

blastbeatkeeper 02-29-2012 04:56 PM

Metallica with Cliff....
 
So, as I was sitting here listening to Metallica, I thought back to a conversation that I had recently with a friend of mine about what the direction of Metallica would have been if Cliff Burton had never been killed...I have a feeling that if Cliff was still around, the album Load and anything past it would never have happened. Does anyone else agree? Where do you think Metallica would be right now if they still had Cliff? Do you think there would have been the fight with Napster? Any thoughts?


RIP Cliff.

Pocket-full-of-gold 03-02-2012 05:53 AM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
At a guess, I reckon they would have followed a very similar path. It wasn't as if Newstead decided the direction of the band or even made huge contributions to the song writing and overall business decisions. Even when Cliff was still on board, it was James and Lars that had creative control. Pretty much the way it is now is the way it's always been.

Nup, personally I think the path they followed post Cliff Burton would have been reasonably similar to what would have happened if he hadn't been killed. Kirk Hammett was there then and now. He's said himself that ultimate control lies with Hetfeild and Ulrich.....or to paraphrase him, he said something like: I'm under no false illusions as to my place in this band. I can't see that Cliff would have had any more impact on their decision making than Kirk to be honest.

It's an interesting theory but I just can't see it being any other way. Regardless, it's all just speculation. He's long gone and Metallica are what they are.

DrumEatDrum 03-02-2012 07:01 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
It's easy for fans to say "Well, knowing Cliff's personality, he wouldn't have let the band morph into what they became" And perhaps that would have been true. And certainly, many of us wish someone had convinced them to not go in the direction they did at the time of Load.

But if took a copy of Load to Lars and James in 1986, they would have laughed at you and kicked you in the crotch for even suggesting that would be the band they would become.

Load was 10 years later. Everyone in the band was 10 years older, with 10 more years of life. Between Justice and Load, most of the band had gotten married, divorced, and re-married. What interested in the band in 1986 and 1996 were two different things.

So it's impossible to say that Cliff would not have also changed over 10 years with the rest of them.

Like Pocket said, I doubt much would have been different because the band is and was Lars and James. They lead, they do the majority of the song writing, it's their band.

mind_drummer 03-03-2012 03:40 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
To me it's easy to understand where they headed, just listen to " Master of Puppets" then to "And Justice for All" and then the "Black Album" , you'll see it very clearly.

Ian Williams 03-03-2012 11:09 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
1 Attachment(s)
Cliff was such a driven frantic force in Metallica...Good post in remembering Mr. Burton.

eddiehimself 03-03-2012 11:18 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
I think you've got to remember that Cliff Burton has been basically frozen in time by his death. For the rest of eternity, he will be thought of as a 26 year old no compromise thrash metalhead, because that was what he was when he died. I have to agree with DED's post. Had he survived, he would have evolved and changed as a person just like the rest of them did.

blastbeatkeeper 03-05-2012 05:54 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
I do have to agree, but then listening to the newer stuff that they have recorded with Trujillo, I have to somewhat disagree. Death Magnetic, even though it has the "sound" of the new Metallica, is getting back into the roots of what was once legendary Metallica. The Lou Reed album they did was absolutely horrendous, and was primarily a money making scheme. That failed. Miserably. But I think that the youth has returned, in a way, with Rob Trujillo. He has the energy and the passion in playing the music. I think thats what did it. All of those ups and downs, is what drove Metallica to become what they were during the Load/Reload/StAnger phases. But now that Rob is here, and looks like here to stay, there is a renewed type of energy with these guys. Hopefully itll stick around, unlike Red Bull energy, and will start to get back to their thrash roots, and blow us all away.

PQleyR 03-05-2012 08:04 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
I recall hearing that Cliff used to play the others lots of different kinds of music, particularly classical music, and that was likely the main source of a lot of the classical influences you hear in the early albums. After his songwriting was no longer a feature of the band, suddenly there's a lot more southern rock and blues influences and you get Load and Reload.

toddmc 08-17-2012 07:52 AM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
Cliff loved REM and heaps of non-metal music (including classical) so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the Loads wouldn't have happened if he were still alive.
James has stated however that Cliff might have been an ally against the Load albums and subsequent image change in the 90's instead of just "going along with it".
Sadly we'll never know..

zarrdoss 08-17-2012 02:41 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
This thread makes me wonder what Metallica would be like if Dave never got fired, Cliff never died and they all stayed together and got along. Fantasy world I know but I can dream cant I? Don't get me wrong I am ecstatic that Dave got fired and started Megadeth but just saying. On a thread related note I think Metallica would have changed but not as dramatic, and hopefully that farce St Anger would have never happened, What were they thinking?

howidied 08-17-2012 04:42 PM

Re: Metallica with Cliff....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zarrdoss (Post 1035984)
This thread makes me wonder what Metallica would be like if Dave never got fired, Cliff never died and they all stayed together and got along. Fantasy world I know but I can dream cant I? Don't get me wrong I am ecstatic that Dave got fired and started Megadeth but just saying. On a thread related note I think Metallica would have changed but not as dramatic, and hopefully that farce St Anger would have never happened, What were they thinking?

Metallica stated that dave got really aggressive when he got drunk, he also spilled beer on ron mcgovney´s bass on purpose. Lars claimed he didnt see him in the band looking 5 years ahead.

to not be OT, Its really just a speculation, Cliff was keen on more kinds of music not just metal so we could expect something different tahna jus thrash with cliff also but on the other they may not have gone so mainstream. but only god knows what have been.


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