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-   -   Bass solos. Crank 'em up? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87605)

Pollyanna 02-20-2012 03:08 PM

Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Jut been listening to this - Jeff Beck live, Cause We Ended as Lovers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw

An absolute gem. Tal's bass solo is unbelievable but I wish she'd cranked up her bass the way Jaco used to do when it was his turn. It's so good I'd like to hear her more clearly.

I don't see why bassists don't crank up more in their solos. I mean, if they're playing big bass then fair enough, but IMO if the bass has the floor it would generally better to crank up given that there's less clarity in the lower register.

Any thoughts?

unfunkyfooted 02-20-2012 05:48 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 962600)
Jut been listening to this - Jeff Beck live, Cause We Ended as Lovers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw

An absolute gem. Tal's bass solo is unbelievable but I wish she'd cranked up her bass the way Jaco used to do when it was his turn. It's so good I'd like to hear her more clearly.

I don't see why bassists don't crank up more in their solos. I mean, if they're playing big bass then fair enough, but IMO if the bass has the floor it would generally better to crank up given that there's less clarity in the lower register.

Any thoughts?

i think it's a sound man issue. btw, i prefer this version from Eric Clapton's Crossroads Festival - also in 2007. also see Jeff and Tal's "A Day In The Life" from the same festival. mind blowing.

larryace 02-20-2012 06:19 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
I'll send out a memo Pol

Fuo 02-20-2012 06:26 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
since this thread is floating around next to a Lars thread (in New Posts):
the obligatory Cliff Burton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOmo0ZuyNk

alparrott 02-20-2012 07:02 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
As a drummer who's also a bassist, I gotta say that young lady is incredibly talented.

Cliff too, but he's less fun to look at ;)

Any number of reasons why bassists don't "crank it up", but the biggest reasons are that the signal distorts easily in the bass register and we could conceivably damage some equipment (I'm thinking the subs under the stage). The band usually drops out a bit during a bass solo to give that sonic room anyways.

Bo Eder 02-20-2012 07:08 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
The great Abe Laboriel Sr. once said that listening to a bass solo is the equivalent to watching a bear walk on his hind legs ;)

aydee 02-20-2012 07:54 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
kick butt bear- on -hind legs walk, imo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXISi...eature=related

...

paul_c 02-20-2012 09:57 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by unfunkyfooted (Post 962676)
i think it's a sound man issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott (Post 962717)
Any number of reasons why bassists don't "crank it up", but the biggest reasons are that the signal distorts easily in the bass register and we could conceivably damage some equipment (I'm thinking the subs under the stage). The band usually drops out a bit during a bass solo to give that sonic room anyways.

I think its a combination of sound man, and the perception that most people have when starting out playing in a band - that of "I must be louder than the drums/electric guitar/(insert instrument of choice)". Of course, the guitarist then wants to be louder, then the singer wants to be louder, etc etc. So inevitibly everyone ends up playing with their equipment near full power. Thus there is no 'headroom' available to turn it up on a solo passage and fit the music properly.

Also there is a lack of understanding (or use of) the dynamics an instrument can achieve (drummers are probably the exception though) so eg a bass player might play a whole song at one volume level instead of using the full range of expression achievable.

Pollyanna 02-21-2012 06:02 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott (Post 962717)
Any number of reasons why bassists don't "crank it up", but the biggest reasons are that the signal distorts easily in the bass register and we could conceivably damage some equipment (I'm thinking the subs under the stage). The band usually drops out a bit during a bass solo to give that sonic room anyways.

For sure, but Jaco managed it fine. I think Tal's solo deserved to be louder so we could better appreciate some of her melodic ideas ... Vinnie's toms were at least as loud as the solo.

Tal's one bear who can not only walk on her hind legs but can run, jump and tap dance. I wanna clearly hear the woman wail!

Bo Eder 02-21-2012 06:05 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 962742)
kick butt bear- on -hind legs walk, imo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXISi...eature=related

...

I wonder if Zawinul made it a prerequisite to play a copy of Jaco's bass to be in the band? Isn't that a bit creepy?

Kinda' like Marco Minneman's Police tribute band, and that bass player had mannerisms just like Sting. I wonder who they see when they look in the mirror?

Pollyanna 02-21-2012 06:10 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 962742)
kick butt bear- on -hind legs walk, imo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXISi...eature=related

Good example, Abe. The bass is crystal clear.

I'm now thinking that Vinnie should have gotten more out of the way like this drummer did early on in the solo (who is he?)

aydee 02-21-2012 06:12 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 962988)
I wonder who they see when they look in the mirror?

lol true dat. Its more than just copying Jacos bass though.. its more like becoming Jaco. I actually think thats true of almost all of the bass players out there. Everyone now plays his dotted 16th note 2 bar grooves and throws in some harmonics.. its amazing how universal one mans playing style became.

...

aydee 02-21-2012 06:13 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 962992)
Good example, Abe. The bass is crystal clear.

I'm now thinking that Vinnie should have gotten more out of the way like this drummer did (who is he?)

Thats Nathaniel Townsley. Fabulous player. Now plays with Richard Bona ( another bass player )

...

Bo Eder 02-21-2012 06:15 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 962993)
lol true dat. Its more than just copying Jacos bass though.. its more like becoming Jaco. I actually think thats true of almost all of the bass players out there. Everyone now plays his dotted 16th note 2 bar grooves and throws in some harmonics.. its amazing how universal one mans playing style became.

...

I need more guys to totally cop James Jamerson, though. There's not enough of that guy in the world ;)

aydee 02-21-2012 06:20 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 962997)
I need more guys to totally cop James Jamerson, though. There's not enough of that guy in the world ;)

I guess they are copping him when they cop Jaco. That how the world works I guess....

...

Pollyanna 02-21-2012 06:27 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 962993)
... amazing how universal one mans playing style became.

I remember him coming up about the same time as Stanley Clarke and it always surprised me how much more attention Jaco got. For some reason I always bracketed them together ... Stanley was the funky acrobat, Jaco the melodic adventurer.

Tal seems to be a mix of them - a melodic acrobat :)

aydee 02-21-2012 06:36 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 963008)
I remember him coming up about the same time as Stanley Clarke and it always surprised me how much more attention Jaco got. For some reason I always bracketed them together ... Stanley was the funky acrobat, Jaco the melodic adventurer.

Tal seems to be a mix of them - a melodic acrobat :)

I saw Stanley play this summer as part of the RTF reunion tour and he was the guy who stood out in terms of sheer jaw dropping performance.. took my breath away. You are right Tal has a bit of both in her, but what I really love about her playing is her taste and her choice of notes. Incredibly contrapunctual, kinda unpredictable, and very tasteful. Almost the definition of a great musician. She used to be a guitar player, btw..

...

Bo Eder 02-21-2012 06:43 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 963018)
She used to be a guitar play, btw..

...


Does this mean she may display those up-the-neck tendencies? Don't bass players know that they need to stay down in the first position and play the low notes? Jeez.....

Pollyanna 02-21-2012 06:52 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 963018)
I saw Stanley play this summer as part of the RTF reunion tour and he was the guy who stood out in terms of sheer jaw dropping performance.. took my breath away. You are right Tal has a bit of both in her, but what I really love about her playing is her taste and her choice of notes. Incredibly contrapunctual, kinda unpredictable, and very tasteful.

First time I heard Stanley I was shocked ... I'd not heard anything like it. Actually, I still haven't.

Yes, Tal has real melodic flair, so desirable in a bassist ... easy to imagine her being an ex guitar player based on her high note phrases.

Strangelove 02-21-2012 07:53 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 962600)
Jut been listening to this - Jeff Beck live, Cause We Ended as Lovers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC02wGj5gPw

An absolute gem. Tal's bass solo is unbelievable but I wish she'd cranked up her bass the way Jaco used to do when it was his turn. It's so good I'd like to hear her more clearly.

I don't see why bassists don't crank up more in their solos. I mean, if they're playing big bass then fair enough, but IMO if the bass has the floor it would generally better to crank up given that there's less clarity in the lower register.

Any thoughts?

I liked that. Subtle, and it sounds like she has a bit of influence from Marcus Miller. He is another of my favorites.

However, if a louder bass solo is what ye seek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enIzgC5E7Hk

How is that for a bear walking on it's hind legs, lol?

Mad About Drums 02-21-2012 07:57 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 963035)
First time I heard Stanley I was shocked ... I'd not heard anything like it. Actually, I still haven't...

Yes, me too, Stanley Clarke was a revelation for me, there's also a few other bass players I think I haven't heard anyone sounding or playing like they do, Jack Bruce and John Entwistle, both have unique styles and sounds :)

I always liked the bass fills in "My Generation", very much John's trademark style :)

Here's a solo from the late John Entwistle playing with some great rock legends on stage in 1990 ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTEmldzx1xE (bass solo start at 4:13)

Pollyanna 02-21-2012 11:15 PM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangelove (Post 963062)
However, if a louder bass solo is what ye seek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enIzgC5E7Hk

How is that for a bear walking on it's hind legs, lol?

Slapping is one way bassists can cut through, though it can get old fast. I read an old interview where Paul McCartney was saying he couldn't do what he called "bumthwacking", which I thought was a fun name for it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums (Post 963279)
Yes, me too, Stanley Clarke was a revelation for me, there's also a few other bass players I think I haven't heard anyone sounding or playing like they do, Jack Bruce and John Entwistle, both have unique styles and sounds :)

I always liked the bass fills in "My Generation", very much John's trademark style :)

Here's a solo from the late John Entwistle playing with some great rock legends on stage in 1990 ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTEmldzx1xE (bass solo start at 4:13)

What a bizarre lineup - Keith Emerson,Skunk Baxter,Joe Walsh, John Entwistle and, of course, Simon Phillips, who it seems now plays drums whenever there's a collection of top musos. Seemed like he forgot that the bass solo was John's spot and decided to make it his own - I can't believe it when top players walk all over someone else's solo like that.

Mad About Drums 02-22-2012 01:56 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 963458)
I can't believe it when top players walk all over someone else's solo like that.

Yep, even the top players can put their foot in the wrong place, although some of the interactions between the bass and drums is quite good... :)

I still liked John's style though :)

No one interfering here, just Stanley watching... (alongside hundreds of people)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHF9g...eature=related

Strangelove 02-22-2012 05:46 AM

Re: Bass solos. Crank 'em up?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 963458)
Slapping is one way bassists can cut through, though it can get old fast. I read an old interview where Paul McCartney was saying he couldn't do what he called "bumthwacking", which I thought was a fun name for it.

I find it entertaining and fun to play. Thumping, slapping whatever you want to call it, I think it seperates the rhythmic styles from the more melodic ones, and everybody has their preferences. But as a drummer, I have always been attracted to that style, with all it's syncopations and rhythm patterns that you can develop along with "popping". It's just fun. However, as far as volume to bass solos, I would put it as number one, picking (Mc Cartney's patented style) as number two and finger as the most muted and subtle. I don't think there is any one orthodox way to play the bass, although I have had discussions with university lab jazz students and been almost convinced that it had to be finger style with an upright acoustic bass (grin). But then I reminded them that that instrument was originally designed for a bow (haha).


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