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-   -   Is SOPA bad? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86128)

aaajn 01-18-2012 11:53 AM

Is SOPA bad?
 
Hello Drummers and friends,

I wish I were smarter but I don't understand SOPA and the net piracy act. I suspect musicians would have a stake in this, from what I understand, Media, music and movies, that kind of thing stand to gain from SOPA, but if big business is pushing it, I am suspect.

Wikipedia went down, a few other big sites that I use. I would appreciate your thoughts. Right now, it sounds like a bad idea to me. Being 51 years old, the net was a new addition to my psyche, I remember a time when it didn't exist.

So your thoughts please. Thanks.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/tech...ined/index.htm

Thaard 01-18-2012 12:06 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
For the people supporting SOPA/PIPA. Enjoy your internet censorship!
It won't do anything with the pirates, but it will harm the actual consumers and users of let's say youtube, wikipedia, facebook(and other social networks) and so on.
It's been written by politicians that have no clue on how the internet works.

jonescrusher 01-18-2012 12:10 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
I think one of the great controversies is that so many people don't understand it, or haven't been given a chance to understand it, which obviously makes it difficult to voice concerns over it.
It appears to be a an ambiguous piece of legislation which gives the US government fairly widespread power to strangle business being conducted with parties who are involved in internet piracy. I'm not sure what burden of proof is required concerning whether a site falls foul of the law, or to what extent it can be used against individuals as a tool of censorship, ie wiki-leaks. It's certainly the first major attempt at government control over the internet.

If it helps stop music piracy and puts money back in the pocket of musicians then great, but somehow I can't see that happening.

BradGunnerSGT 01-18-2012 04:18 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonescrusher (Post 944702)
If it helps stop music piracy and puts money back in the pocket of music industry executives then great, but somehow I can't see that happening.

Fixed that for ya....

chaymus 01-18-2012 05:21 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
It's worse than bad. For a country that claims freedom is a goal this is pretty Orwellian. Imagine you own a drum site and people want to upload videos of things they find to get help understanding the lick. (Educational purpose and fair use for courts). Now what they didn't know is they uploaded something the RIAA owns the copyright of and they suspect they're losing profit by your supposed fair use. Rather than requesting that users post getting pulled, your DNS (entire website) is automatically routed to a black hole. All of this is done at the request of the content owner, no need to get it court-approved before blocking, or realistically give the drum website owner a chance to pull it first.

The problem is the ambiguity in the writing. Once people start blocking the DNS the drum website owner can offer their own DNS router that will continue to work. It is just shy of telling everyone a centralized internet is on the way out.

By enforcing loose copyright protection at a protocol and centralized backbone it's a serious botch of someone who doesn't know what they're really dealing with.

Obligatory car analogy: Ford decides used cars are cutting into their profits and pass a bill than a used car on the road infringes and should be shut down by an automated tire trap. As cars pass by they don't bother to tell the driver, and don't really care if it's a Ford or not. People begin building private roads where Ford has no jurisdiction.

GRUNTERSDAD 01-18-2012 05:37 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Since we haven't read the bill, who knows. And we all know, that follow American politics, that what is written is not always what's inacted or enforced. So we all hold our breath.

chaymus 01-18-2012 05:44 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 944815)
Since we haven't read the bill, who knows. And we all know, that follow American politics, that what is written is not always what's inacted or enforced. So we all hold our breath.

Easy to fix:
http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...0HR%203261.pdf

//note this is not currently blocked out at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/techn...-sopa-and.html

Midnite Zephyr 01-18-2012 05:45 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
It's about power and control and limiting our independence.

Fuo 01-18-2012 05:51 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chaymus (Post 944801)
It's worse than bad. For a country that claims freedom is a goal this is pretty Orwellian. Imagine you own a drum site and people want to upload videos of things they find to get help understanding the lick. (Educational purpose and fair use for courts). Now what they didn't know is they uploaded something the RIAA owns the copyright of and they suspect they're losing profit by your supposed fair use. Rather than requesting that users post getting pulled, your DNS (entire website) is automatically routed to a black hole. All of this is done at the request of the content owner, no need to get it court-approved before blocking, or realistically give the drum website owner a chance to pull it first.

The problem is the ambiguity in the writing. Once people start blocking the DNS the drum website owner can offer their own DNS router that will continue to work. It is just shy of telling everyone a centralized internet is on the way out.

By enforcing loose copyright protection at a protocol and centralized backbone it's a serious botch of someone who doesn't know what they're really dealing with.

Obligatory car analogy: Ford decides used cars are cutting into their profits and pass a bill than a used car on the road infringes and should be shut down by an automated tire trap. As cars pass by they don't bother to tell the driver, and don't really care if it's a Ford or not. People begin building private roads where Ford has no jurisdiction.


AFAIK, they dropped the DNS part already.

The scary part, from what I can tell, is that it makes site owners responsible for links to content that may infringe. You think Bernhard has the time or resources to review every post and remove links?

Naigewron 01-18-2012 05:51 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Why SOPA will destroy the internet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhwuXNv8fJM

eddiehimself 01-18-2012 06:36 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Yes. It's rubbish. Like trying to "ban" anything, the criminals will always find a way round it and the only people it will affect are people who are not criminals, such as small businesses who have free wifi in order to attract customers. Personally I don't think there are a lot of things that should be banned as far from stopping criminal activity, most bans play straight into their hands...

toddy 01-18-2012 06:48 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
SOPA is evil.
even if SOPA passes i'll give away all my downloads for free.
already know people with servers hooked up in eastern europe so my stuff will be OK.

sometimes you have to take a stand against something, because it's that important.

eddiehimself 01-18-2012 06:55 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 944881)
SOPA is fucking evil.
even if SOPA passes i'll give away all my downloads for free.
already know people with servers hooked up in eastern europe so my stuff will be OK.

sometimes you have to take a stand against something, because it's that important.

I might move away from the UK sometime soon if this sort of thing carries on. I feel as if we are just America's bitch sometimes.

diegobxr 01-18-2012 07:09 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
OH SHIT. :l

http://www.sticks4drums.com/apps/vid...rtists-on-kits


Someone definitely owns those vids...

Goodbye Drummerworld.

Naigewron 01-18-2012 07:16 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
edit: Nevermind, I got it now :-)

toddy 01-18-2012 07:17 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 944887)
I might move away from the UK sometime soon if this sort of thing carries on. I feel as if we are just America's bitch sometimes.

I moved to london not long ago, but I'm already preparing to move to berlin and then onwards from there to switzerland if necessary.
todays generation deserve my music for free out of respect for all the stuff I "stole" when I was a kid. don't want to be a hypocrite, not my style.
companies, well they can and will pay a premium.

Xero Talent 01-18-2012 07:29 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i.../sopa/sopa.gif

GRUNTERSDAD 01-18-2012 07:32 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
It is strictly our government feeling the need to regulate everything we do. I have written my congressman, How about you?

Jeremy Bender 01-19-2012 04:46 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
I hate to ask this question but here it goes...why does this matter? There was life before all of this technology. Actully, I got a lot more sleep before it!

Maybe since the majority of my life has been spent without the relatively new phenomenon called the internet, I'm not too considered. There was a time when we wrote letters, made phone calls, got married, gigged, and had social lives before the WWW. It wouldn't be the end of my world if the whole friggin' thing completely went dark for good tomorrow.
That being said...I would in-fact miss our beloved Drummerworld.

BassDriver 01-19-2012 07:15 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

It's been written by politicians that have no clue on how the internet works.
I think they know what the internet is like, it is great anarchical computer construction that is great for bringing people together through ease of communication...

...now in the minds of these law makers we surely we cannot have that.

Leave the internet alone.

Freedom of communication is surely more important than any regulation to "protect intellectual property".

harryconway 01-19-2012 07:40 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Yes ... SOPA and PIPA are bad. Paid for by big money interests. The artist probably won't get diddly out of this deal. But the rich movie companies, will get richer. The rich, corporate record execs will get richer. It costs big money to lobby Washington.
When Google and Wikipedia come out and say this is bad mojo, it's probably bad mojo. And quite frankly, our current group of mostly aging congressmen (average age 58.2), they can't seem to grasp the simple concept of "don't spend more than you make !" They didn't get it 10 years ago, and they seem to not get it now. So something as "complex" as the internet ... they shouldn't even get involved in that.

keep it simple 01-19-2012 12:01 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
I love the idea of this legislation. It means eventually, I'll no longer be exposed to new music made by real musicians, as examples would be almost impossible to find. After some time of adjustment, I'd be much happier as a consumer of music that the big corporations think I should listen to. I wouldn't have to concern myself with playing drums anymore, as machines would do the job just as well. That would release a huge amount of time for me to exist in a happy moronic state, thus making my life far less complicated. I say vote it in ;)

jonescrusher 01-19-2012 12:12 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 944911)
todays generation deserve my music for free out of respect for all the stuff I "stole" when I was a kid. don't want to be a hypocrite, not my style.
companies, well they can and will pay a premium.


So your music and the work you put in to make it are valueless? It's a quaint notion, but music made by amateurs will never attain the standards of professionals.
If you can generate enough revenue from commercial licensing alone then you're doing very well.

GRUNTERSDAD 01-19-2012 01:59 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
There are laws now against copyright infringement and piracy but this will take away due process and the gestapo will find you guilty without a trial and it will lead to other legislation dealing with things in the same way. Inforce the laws now in effect and we will be find. Lawyers just love to make laws to pad their resumes and keep each other employed. Without lawyers we wouldn't need lawyers.

PQleyR 01-19-2012 03:51 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
The phrase 'Intellectual Property' is as nonsensical as this legislation. How can one own a thought? It's not who thinks of an idea first but who patents it first in any case. I think the 19th-21st century adventure in copyright will ultimately be looked back on as a mistake.

Dan Bull offered some interesting thoughts on the subject of filesharing in 2009, in this riposte to a statement made by Lily Allen about it.

And in looking for that video, I found he'd said something about SOPA too.

toddy 01-19-2012 03:53 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
all the musicians will go underground into a secret bunker. sort of like fightclub, but better.

screw sopa, screw leftwingobamascum, screw them all.
left is right is center is bullshit

as long as i have a midi keyboard a drum kit and a computer and electricity then i can quite easily amuse myself for the next 50 years

toddy 01-19-2012 03:56 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonescrusher (Post 945435)
So your music and the work you put in to make it are valueless? It's a quaint notion, but music made by amateurs will never attain the standards of professionals.
If you can generate enough revenue from commercial licensing alone then you're doing very well.

valueless?

my music will be incredible, but it's much better when you hear it live with the energy. on record its dull. why charge for a lesser form of it? i'll charge a high price to see it live. you realise mozart and beethoven were employed by big families (companies) to create music and play it live. the sooner we get back to that sort of model the better.

who gives a shit about recorded sound, edison wasn't trying to invent copyrights or make middle management record label dickheads when he was inventing stuff back in the day. screw the industry, if you're a musician then play music, you don't need some shit A&R man with a rubbish degree from a poor university trying to tell you what to do.

it takes me about 5 hours to make one of my tunes, as long as i earn enough to eat and pay taxes so i can breathe oxygen then who cares what else i make? screw big cars big houses nice holidays. im a musician and that is what i do, all the other shit would just get in the way.

all my music will be creative commons (except for adverts/films/etc). remix do whatever you want with it. how can someone own a melody or a chord progression? you telling me thats fair? thats disrespectful to sound man. at the end of the day if you can whistle then you're a musician.

Lunar Satellite Brian 01-19-2012 04:28 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero Talent (Post 944925)

I think I love you. That was the best thing I have seen in the course of history.

CreeplyTuna 01-19-2012 06:07 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
I know this is a video game website, but this great article really put things into perspective for me.

http://www.gamesradar.com/internet-u...sneak-preview/

Cabazon 01-20-2012 02:47 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 945429)
I love the idea of this legislation. It means eventually, I'll no longer be exposed to new music made by real musicians, as examples would be almost impossible to find. After some time of adjustment, I'd be much happier as a consumer of music that the big corporations think I should listen to. I wouldn't have to concern myself with playing drums anymore, as machines would do the job just as well. That would release a huge amount of time for me to exist in a happy moronic state, thus making my life far less complicated. I say vote it in ;)


I'm with you all the way on this. I feel that the internet has allowed too many people to do too many things as they like. It's become dizzying anarchy--and that's no way to live.

I wish only that they further broaden the definitions in the bill to allow corporations a more complete control over things. The way the legislation is now, some of these "artists" could still slip through the cracks and muddy up what should be a nice, clean, and concise collection of media.

And pirates too. They're just out to steal money from these wonderful media groups. Jealousy, perhaps?

nhzoso 01-20-2012 03:51 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
definetly bad and ridiculous and alot of politicians are back tracking on it already, but what confuses me is how many people who are for big gov't getting involved and controlling all things like medical, education, taxes etc etc but hey don't mess with my internet thats personal and I don't trust the government who is obviously persuaded by big business, but ya know just on this subject.....LOL

jodgey4 01-20-2012 04:23 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Search for 'Ron Paul SOPA' for some great views. It's nasty legislation, that has such vague language, it leaves lots of power open to abuse. Couple this with the NDAA act (section 1021) and other legislation we have (Patriot Act), and there's a lot to be worried about, including the general political atmosphere we have. These bills have too many shady areas that all can be abused. There's almost the potential now for a complete takeover of every citizen's rights, and yet people aren't worried. As we keep expanding our corrupt system, the beliefs and traditions of freedom this country was founded on slip farther and farther away. Now they can search our homes without warrants, detain us indefinitely without charges, and they are trying to block the Internet now, the greatest tool for many freedom movements, and home to alternative non-corporate media sources. This is wrong.

toddy 01-20-2012 09:32 AM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
all the big internet companies will just start doing blackouts
if facebook or google have the balls to do it then the bill will be out straight away

jonescrusher 01-20-2012 12:11 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 945516)

it takes me about 5 hours to make one of my tunes, as long as i earn enough to eat and pay taxes so i can breathe oxygen then who cares what else i make? fuck big cars big houses nice holidays. im a musician and that is what i do, all the other shit would just get in the way.


But how will you earn the money to buy the food/pay the taxes. Without owning what you create how can you make even a penny from it? How would you charge a high price for live perfomances without the label promotion in the first place? The starving musician thing is all very romantic but it starts to hurt the old noggin after a while.

aaajn 01-20-2012 12:34 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
There have been a couple of bands on the outer ends of the discussion, two that come to mind are the Grateful Dead and Metallica. The Dead actually had an area for tapers, they almost encouraged it. Metallica was in a wicked big law suit with Napster, Dr. Dre was in on it too. They wanted to be compensated for their "property".

My music teacher back in Seattle used to talk about a more subtle form of piracy, just burning somebody else's disc onto an MP3 player without buying it. But here is the rub for me, if I "borrow" your CD of "Name Your Band" and load it into the laptop and listen, there is a much greater chance I will buy more of your music if I like it.

Shutting off all sites because some entity is making money from it seems silly to me. So I have form a better opinion on SOPA, it's dumb legislation. I also learned that it invokes a pretty ugly response from a lot of people. But hey, it's the internet, right?

And that cartoon with the Koala and the Goat was awesome, I was wondering of I could borrow it, are there royalties?

eddiehimself 01-20-2012 01:36 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonescrusher (Post 946097)
But how will you earn the money to buy the food/pay the taxes. Without owning what you create how can you make even a penny from it? How would you charge a high price for live perfomances without the label promotion in the first place? The starving musician thing is all very romantic but it starts to hurt the old noggin after a while.

I think since you 2 live so near to each other, you ought to have a fight about it :)

Pollyanna 01-20-2012 01:56 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
So what's going to happen if this gets in?

alparrott 01-20-2012 03:46 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aaajn (Post 946099)
And that cartoon with the Koala and the Goat was awesome, I was wondering of I could borrow it, are there royalties?

The koala/goat thing is from The Oatmeal (http://theoatmeal.com/sopa), and he has given permission to freely yoink it in the interests of all who oppose SOPA and PIPA.

Deathmetalconga 01-20-2012 04:37 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 946122)
So what's going to happen if this gets in?

Anonymous will ruin anyone who supports SOPA - let's hear it for intimidation!

Too Many Songs 01-20-2012 04:53 PM

Re: Is SOPA bad?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 946122)
So what's going to happen if this gets in?

Unless you are a US service provider you don't really need to care. But if you are a US service provider and provide links to overseas 'pirate sites' such as Pirate Bay then you can be made liable.

Just your standard US legislation's over the top way of getting global control of the world's media. Nothing to worry about at all - move along now - nothing to see here.


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