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-   -   What else have you guys used besides Moongel? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84988)

BigDinSD 12-22-2011 08:17 PM

What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
I had a spare Evans ST I just put onto a PDP ACE Brass Snare 6.5 x 14. Got the ACE on sale off the shelf, complete with the worn-down head.

It has a nice crack to it, and needs just a little bit of control. I would probably buy an ST Dry next, because I do like a little ring to it. However, the ST has a little more ring and overtone for me.

Can you guys recommend something besides moongel? I prefer not to buy it because I don't really use it.

I've heard duct tape, scotch tape over cloth strips, wallet, dollar bill, sticky toys...

I'm looking for something that I can remove without leaving too much mess.

thanks!

tard 12-22-2011 08:46 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
An Aquarian "studio ring" or a Remo "0 ring", or just make one from an old head.

Mad About Drums 12-22-2011 08:51 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tard (Post 931071)
An Aquarian "studio ring" or a Remo "0 ring", or just make one from an old head.

+1, and Steve Gadd use zero ring on his snare drum. :)

larryace 12-22-2011 09:28 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
34 AA breasts work well....

Mad About Drums 12-22-2011 09:33 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 931089)
34 AA breasts work well....

I agree, ...but there's a danger of hitting the snare side head unvoluntary and with an uncontrolled stroke... ;-))

Florian 12-22-2011 09:42 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
go to the dollar store and get those gel things that kids stick on windows...same stuff, lots cheaper.

F

BigDinSD 12-22-2011 09:44 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 931089)
34 AA breasts work well....

With or without covering? Kinda like the nude Vater series sticks?

BigDinSD 12-22-2011 09:45 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad About Drums (Post 931077)
+1, and Steve Gadd use zero ring on his snare drum. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tard (Post 931071)
An Aquarian "studio ring" or a Remo "0 ring", or just make one from an old head.

Yeah, good idea. Lemme go get that old Remo/Pacific head out of the trash that came with the snare.

BigDinSD 12-22-2011 09:46 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 931094)
go to the dollar store and get those gel things that kids stick on windows...same stuff, lots cheaper.

F

I'll keep an eye out for those. My kids used to stick them on the window. After a year, I finally peeled them off and tossed them.

Tyger 12-22-2011 11:31 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
The rings work nicely but really if you get some gaff tape instead of duct tape which leaves residue, you would be better off. just tear of a piece and create little folds 2 or 3 and you are good to go. works really well for me

BigDinSD 12-22-2011 11:42 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyger (Post 931159)
The rings work nicely but really if you get some gaff tape instead of duct tape which leaves residue, you would be better off. just tear of a piece and create little folds 2 or 3 and you are good to go. works really well for me

Would electical tape remove cleanly? Hoping not to have to get a roll of gaff tape, since I don't see myself using after.

Mad About Drums 12-22-2011 11:51 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDinSD (Post 931170)
Would electical tape remove cleanly? Hoping not to have to get a roll of gaff tape, since I don't see myself using after.

You only tape the edge of the "0" ring to the hoops, any eventual residue from a piece of electrical tape is easily removed..:)

The "0" ring work on the principle that when you hit the heads, the ring "lift" from the batter head, letting the precious little frequencies to freely resonate, and almost imediately cut the overtones when returning to it's original position, so you don't actually tape the ring to the batter head.

When I use a "0" ring, I just let it rest on the batter head, no tape needed...

BigDinSD 12-23-2011 06:41 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Ok - so I went with the original drumhead that came with the snare and made an O ring.
Now, it had been under tension for some time, while on the display room shelf. Seen its share of stick action too. So that wear and stretching did not allow it to lay perfectly flat around its 360 degree edge. Kinda was a little wrinkled in a spot or 2.

However, the imperfect contact to the head allowed for some natural ringing, like it was slightly muffled. That was my target. If I flip the ring over, it contacts the head more. I guess because the edge of the ring curled up due to contact with bearing edge (???)

I probably would be afraid to lose the ring, if I gigged with this snare. I use it for practice - so I'm OK until I get a dry head. You know, those guitar guys are always helpful but will bang into the doorway with your gear or lose an O ring some where... :-)

Animal78 12-23-2011 07:05 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
O rings all the way.... Depending on the depth of the ring depends on the deadening of the resonance.. I used to use an Evans Power center dot natter head with 'Evans E Rings' they were 2 inches deep, I now use an Evans HD dry head and Remo E rings which are only 1 inch deep.. sounds nicer too

Its worth experimenting to get the sound you want...

BigDinSD 12-24-2011 12:20 AM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Animal78 (Post 931633)
O rings all the way.... Depending on the depth of the ring depends on the deadening of the resonance.. I used to use an Evans Power center dot natter head with 'Evans E Rings' they were 2 inches deep, I now use an Evans HD dry head and Remo E rings which are only 1 inch deep.. sounds nicer too

Its worth experimenting to get the sound you want...

Question: Do you still get at least a little ring from the HD Dry? And what snare do you have it on (metal or wood)? I have an HD Dry on my DW Collectors maple. Quite dry, but clean - crisp crack.

The Ace is brass, so I still wanted a smidge of tone - ring in there.

Bull 12-24-2011 05:48 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
That ring and overtone are why you buy a brass drum in the first place. I just got one of those $99 Aces, myself. I put put a Vintage Emperor and a hazy Ambassador on it. I switched out the snares with a Fat Cat 30 strand. It does have more overtones than I am used to but I like it. In a close mic'ed situation, it might need a half inch of gaff tape but other than that,I would keep wide open. I hate 0-rings!! :)

GRUNTERSDAD 12-24-2011 05:57 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
OK. This is a trade secret but I am willing to pass it on for you guys. It is cheap, very abundant and works well. You place this object close to the edge near you and your problems are over. A business card. Stays put, leaves no mess, easily carried in your wallet, and most of all they are free. Moon Gel works great but leaves blue on white heads, all of the tapes leave residue, and are a mess. so grab your wallet pull out a card and kill the ring.

HipshotPercussion 12-24-2011 07:31 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 932102)
OK. This is a trade secret but I am willing to pass it on for you guys. It is cheap, very abundant and works well. You place this object close to the edge near you and your problems are over. A business card. Stays put, leaves no mess, easily carried in your wallet, and most of all they are free. Moon Gel works great but leaves blue on white heads, all of the tapes leave residue, and are a mess. so grab your wallet pull out a card and kill the ring.

Back in the day, I just left the whole wallet there on the snare. It was empty anyway.

Kenny Allyn 12-24-2011 07:41 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
I use the "Felt Fix" ...

Closer to the rim yields a bit drier sound, and you may try different sizes, it's cheap clean and best of all works!


More about it here


http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...5&postcount=15

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...9&postcount=16


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ts/FeltFix.jpg

Mad About Drums 12-24-2011 07:46 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 932102)
You place this object close to the edge near you and your problems are over. A business card...

Cool idea, and probably less dampening of the same method used by Johnny Rabb, he uses his wollet... :-)

KirbyM 12-26-2011 04:41 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Moongels are expensive and they move around. If you hit one them, it's usually ruined. Most drum companies have stopped offering internal mufflers. Ludwig drums can still be ordered with the mufflers(Tone Control) as an option or you can buy just the muffler itself. The normal cost is around $20 each. The Ludwig mufflers tend to rattle a bit and can be annoying in the studio. I have fixed this problem with everything from duct tape to silicone gel.

sticks4drums 12-26-2011 04:45 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Allyn (Post 932142)
I use the "Felt Fix" ...

Closer to the rim yields a bit drier sound, and you may try different sizes, it's cheap clean and best of all works!


More about it here


http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...5&postcount=15

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...9&postcount=16


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ts/FeltFix.jpg

I use these also. :)

Florian 12-26-2011 07:37 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KirbyM (Post 932783)
Moongels are expensive and they move around. If you hit one them, it's usually ruined. Most drum companies have stopped offering internal mufflers. Ludwig drums can still be ordered with the mufflers(Tone Control) as an option or you can buy just the muffler itself. The normal cost is around $20 each. The Ludwig mufflers tend to rattle a bit and can be annoying in the studio. I have fixed this problem with everything from duct tape to silicone gel.

indeed they are expensive, but Ive never had one move and never ruined one (and Ive hit them countless times) Curious as to how they move and why/how you could ruin them>?

F

drummin' 08-31-2013 07:58 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
Back in the day all quality sets had internal tone controls. Why they ever did away with them is beyond me.

I experimented with Moongel and rings.

Finally, being "old school", I bought and installed Ludwig internal tone controls in every drum (except the kick) in my Gretsch Catalina Club set.
It's a little bit of work, you have to take the drum apart and do a little planning and use care when you decide to drill but in my opinion it's by far the best solution. You can go from full on to completely off and anything in between with a few quick turns. Besides I think they look cool and give the drums a little bit of that "high end" look.

I have never had a problem with them rattling.

mandrew 08-31-2013 10:05 PM

Re: What else have you guys used besides Moongel?
 
In 1968, I had a then "state of the art" Rogers Dynasonic metal snare, 14x5. That high end drum had an internal tone control, just like the Ludwigs. It never ratted, but I never understood the proper way to use it either. Most guys over cranked them, as I did. some purists insist that anything inside the drum disrupts the flow of sound waves is bad. I can't argue that, but I never heard a difference. Most Symphonic players use handkerchiefs or wallets. Works fine for them! Now I use moon gels, and I don't care if it leaves a blue spot. No one sees it but me, and that's nothing compared to what sticks and brushes do . . .


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