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-   -   here is a question. (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84805)

eddiehimself 12-19-2011 07:15 PM

here is a question.
 
What is the point in being a good little law-abiding citizen, if you still end up having to go to court, through no fault of your own?

GRUNTERSDAD 12-19-2011 07:25 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
More info please. Are you charged with somethng, the plaintif, the accused, What?

larryace 12-19-2011 07:51 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Even if you are a good law biding citizen your whole life...the legal system will somehow involve you like it or not. Price of living in a free country.

I had to go to a class for DUI in 2005. In the class was this one woman. The reason she was in the class? A few weeks prior, she was getting her hair done. Someone hit her parked car. The officer wanted to breathalyze her, she refused, and was arrested. No fair, right? Where was the D in her DUI?

So more details, please.

Fuo 12-19-2011 07:57 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Jury duty? Meh... you get a day off work if nothing else...

eddiehimself 12-19-2011 09:05 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuo (Post 929280)
Jury duty? Meh... you get a day off work if nothing else...

Jury Duty. Yeah, hopefully I'm not actually going to get put on a case. I'm going to make myself look like the least suitable candiate for a juror whilst I'm there lol.

bermuda 12-19-2011 09:19 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I went in for jury duty last week. Not my first time mind you, and I've been on panels, as well as been excused after the requisite day to be part of the process. In L.A. County, they have a one-day-one-trial policy. When they need you, you have one day to get on a panel. If you don't, they consider your service completed and you go about your business. If you get on a panel that day, and the trial lasts for 2 days, you've also completed your service. You're not required to fullfil the 10 days' of service you're obligated to.

What I didn't like was NOT being called for anything. I sat around all day, and it was for nothing. I would much rather have been called for a panel, got to hang out a few days and do some good for a trial that might normally have a bunch of people on a jury who really don't want to be there.

Believe me, if you're ever a defendant or plaintiff, you'll want jurors there who care enough to weigh the facts.

Anyway, while it's very amusing to want to make yourself unattractive to the attornies during jury selection, don't get too cute. You can be charged with contempt (see paragraph above.)

Bermuda

mediocrefunkybeat 12-19-2011 10:24 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I hope it's not too bad.

I'm quite glad that I'm ineligible!

Just be thankful that we live in a country where we have trial by jury rather than other (more corruptible) methods.

Bo Eder 12-19-2011 10:25 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I love jury duty, especially when put on a case. I have a paralegal degree and was really into the process. It could be worse, I always say.

eddiehimself 12-19-2011 11:21 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 929276)
Even if you are a good law biding citizen your whole life...the legal system will somehow involve you like it or not. Price of living in a free country.

I had to go to a class for DUI in 2005. In the class was this one woman. The reason she was in the class? A few weeks prior, she was getting her hair done. Someone hit her parked car. The officer wanted to breathalyze her, she refused, and was arrested. No fair, right? Where was the D in her DUI?

So more details, please.

To be fair, you can't exactly just say "ok, we'll let you off if you don't want to do a breathalyser test". otherwise everyone would do it. Anyway, you're lucky you can just get off on a class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 929316)
I went in for jury duty last week. Not my first time mind you, and I've been on panels, as well as been excused after the requisite day to be part of the process. In L.A. County, they have a one-day-one-trial policy. When they need you, you have one day to get on a panel. If you don't, they consider your service completed and you go about your business. If you get on a panel that day, and the trial lasts for 2 days, you've also completed your service. You're not required to fullfil the 10 days' of service you're obligated to.

What I didn't like was NOT being called for anything. I sat around all day, and it was for nothing. I would much rather have been called for a panel, got to hang out a few days and do some good for a trial that might normally have a bunch of people on a jury who really don't want to be there.

Believe me, if you're ever a defendant or plaintiff, you'll want jurors there who care enough to weigh the facts.

Anyway, while it's very amusing to want to make yourself unattractive to the attornies during jury selection, don't get too cute. You can be charged with contempt (see paragraph above.)

Bermuda

I'm not going to get myself charged with contempt of court. I just figured I'd say some things like "bring back hanging" etc... they can't exactly charge you for having an opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat (Post 929340)
I hope it's not too bad.

I'm quite glad that I'm ineligible!

Just be thankful that we live in a country where we have trial by jury rather than other (more corruptible) methods.

Lucky you for being inelegable. I'm going to make myself inelegable from now on, that's for sure. TBH I think trial by jury is pretty outdated. I'd rather have my guilt determined by qualified professionals than 12 members of joe public who have their opinions informed by the SUN and would much rather not be there.

Too Many Songs 12-20-2011 10:19 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 929369)
Lucky you for being inelegable. I'm going to make myself inelegable from now on, that's for sure. TBH I think trial by jury is pretty outdated. I'd rather have my guilt determined by qualified professionals than 12 members of joe public who have their opinions informed by the SUN and would much rather not be there.

Are your opinions informed by the Sun? I assume not so perhaps you do have an important role to play on a jury.

As to jury trial: that is 'the lamp that shows that freedom lives'. 'Qualified professionals' are typically white, middle-aged and middle class and are poor arbiters of justice: you only have to look at the system of magistrates to realise the risks of doing away with jury trials. But then I suspect that you believe you will never have to face a criminal charge in court and if you ever did you are confident that you would not be discrimnated against by those in a postion to judge you.

Pollyanna 12-20-2011 11:34 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
It's always surprised me that I've never been called (touch wood). Now that I'm a carer I suspect I could be excused.

Still, I paid my dues - I worked in legalistic areas for years and I'm over it. I avoid the legal system like the plague.

Good luck Eddie. What you don't want is a long trial. For me that would be like being caged.

keep it simple 12-20-2011 11:41 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 929313)
I'm going to make myself look like the least suitable candiate for a juror whilst I'm there lol.

A prominent "I'm a drummer" t shirt should do the trick ;)

Pollyanna 12-20-2011 11:44 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 929612)
A prominent "I'm a drummer" t shirt should do the trick ;)

Actually, the defence lawyer would love that. Cool, groovy drummer, a bit naughty so less likely to be judgemental ...

Might as well jump up and down yelling "Pick me! Pick me!" :)

eddiehimself 12-20-2011 11:58 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Too Many Songs (Post 929603)
Are your opinions informed by the Sun? I assume not so perhaps you do have an important role to play on a jury.

As to jury trial: that is 'the lamp that shows that freedom lives'. 'Qualified professionals' are typically white, middle-aged and middle class and are poor arbiters of justice: you only have to look at the system of magistrates to realise the risks of doing away with jury trials. But then I suspect that you believe you will never have to face a criminal charge in court and if you ever did you are confident that you would not be discrimnated against by those in a postion to judge you.

Yes, qualified professionals may typically be white middle aged and middle class, but then again, so are most jurors. They generally represent the population. At the end of the day, legal professionals are paid to not be discriminatory. What makes you so sure that any normal member of the public is not going to be discriminatory? Honestly, you read any article on Yahoo! news about crime and the comments are almost all discriminatory in some way. Also, what if we're talking about a high profile case, one that is portrayed widley in the media? How can you possibly get a jury together that has not seen the story in the news and had their views altered by that in some way? I don't think a jury makes the process any less discriminatory.

Pollyanna 12-20-2011 12:32 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 929615)
What makes you so sure that any normal member of the public is not going to be discriminatory? Honestly, you read any article on Yahoo! news about crime and the comments are almost all discriminatory in some way. Also, what if we're talking about a high profile case, one that is portrayed widley in the media? How can you possibly get a jury together that has not seen the story in the news and had their views altered by that in some way? I don't think a jury makes the process any less discriminatory.

There ya go. The thoughts of a drummer. An intelligent, reasonable, honest guy like you is exactly what the defence would want.

They sure don't want Ma and Pa Kettle of the local loony right wing fundamentalist group who rings radio shock jocks to complain about refugees and young people today..

mediocrefunkybeat 12-20-2011 12:40 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I'm just going to play Devil's Advocate for a minute here.

In no way am I advocating extremist ideologies here, but. Surely part of the idea of a jury is that all segments of the population can be represented? It's the same with the electoral system - the right and left-wing extremists can vote and should be allowed to in a free society provided that they're not breaking the law in doing so (i.e. intimidatory tactics, vote-rigging, etc) in the same way that the extremist parties (that are perceptively on the far-right in the UK) should be allowed to exist to represent those views.

Hopefully with an educated population those kinds of views won't get much of a hearing if the majority of the population does vote in a way that is 'sensible' (although who am I to decide that?).

The same goes for a jury. Judges don't often accept split decisions so you would hope that the 'nutters' in the jury panel wouldn't hold the kind of influence. In fact, the quickest way to provide a decision in a jury in to actually analyse the facts of the case and provide a verdict, rather than all just going along with one 'nutter's' view. There aren't as many extremists in the UK as the Internet and papers make us believe and te vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle - it's just they never get reported because they are the 'normal' population.

Too Many Songs 12-20-2011 12:43 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Eddie - you miss the point. YOU ARE THE PUBLIC! That is why you are asked to serve on a jury. It is the diversity of the jury that is its strength. There will be bigots and ill-informed idiots on the jury you serve on. And you will be there to balance their views.

aydee 12-20-2011 01:04 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 929255)
What is the point in being a good little law-abiding citizen, if you still end up having to go to court, through no fault of your own?

Here's the point :

Attachment 45299

...

Pollyanna 12-20-2011 01:49 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
As always, George Carlin has the game worked out:
Some people try to get out of jury duty by lying. You don't have to lie. Tell the judge the truth. Tell him you'd make a terrific juror because you can spot guilty people ... [snaps fingers] ... Just like that!
Hey Abe, that's a pointy point you make!

Zickos 12-20-2011 03:56 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I was on a jury once.

Imagine yourself on the other side of the table, facing a jury of your peers who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty. Wouldn't that be fun?

inneedofgrace 12-20-2011 05:22 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Last week I was driving to work and the person in front of me was driving too fast for the conditions, and hit the guy in front of him when traffic slowed down. The guy that got hit pulled over on the shoulder, but the guy who hit him took off (probably because he didn't have insurance). I tried valiantly to catch up to this guy so I could get his license plate number. I was not successful, because traffic was very heavy, and this idiot was weaving in and out of the lanes to get away, and it was getting way too dangerous. I so wanted to report this person in order for there to be justice. I would hope most people feel the same way, instead of just not wanting to get involved.

bermuda 12-20-2011 05:39 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 929615)
What makes you so sure that any normal member of the public is not going to be discriminatory?

Any member of the public? Perhaps. That's why they choose 12 people, so that it's not left up to just one. If a single person's decision was acceptable, the presiding judge would simply decide the case. BTW, a jury's decision is not always final, the judge can overturn it on the spot. And the judge's decision isn't always final... it can be appealed. It can be a lengthy process, but the jury certainly plays an important role.

Quote:

How can you possibly get a jury together that has not seen the story in the news and had their views altered by that in some way? I don't think a jury makes the process any less discriminatory.
This is where the selection process begins. They don't simply trot in 12 people from the jury pool and they're the jury. Each prospective juror is questioned as to whether they feel they can fairly assess the facts of the case as they'll be presented. Do they know anything about the case, or the persons involved? Do they know, or are they related to any of the persons involved in the case? Typically, the attornies, plaintiff(s), and defendant(s) are present and can dismiss a prospective juror they don't like, without explanation. Could be they don't like their voice, their apparent religion, race, age, gender, the color of their shirt, the way they walked into the jury box or how they sit in their chair, etc. It's more likely you'd get excused from the selection process than end up serving on the case.

Being obstinate or funny or suddenly pointing at the defendant and shouting "he's the one, he did it!" not only gets you off the panel, but into a charge of contempt.

In California, everyone with either a driver license, or who's registered to vote, is eligible to be called for jury duty. There are a few legit reasons which will excuse you from having to show up, and proof is always required. Falsifying such information results in worse penalties that just showing up and giving a day or two or five of your time.

The fine in California for not showing up for jury service is $1500, And according to the law, "In addition, if you are qualified to serve, you will still have to complete jury duty."

Bermuda

Midnite Zephyr 12-20-2011 06:39 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I'm 42 and I've only been summoned for jury duty once when I was 25. Luckily I was living in another county and didn't have to serve. I don't think they want people with no party affiliation. I have been registered as N/P (No Party) my almost my whole life as far as voting goes.

DrumDoug 12-20-2011 07:33 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
The last time I got called for jury duty, I made it as far at getting interviewed by the prosocutor and defense attourney. The defense attourney asked me what I would think if he presented no defense? I said that I understand that it is the prosocution's job to prove the defendant guilty, not the defense's job to prove his innosence. However, I said I though it would not help his case if he presented no argument. I was dismissed. Some old man was dismissed when he said he thought the defendant was guilty, otherwise he would never have been arrested.

alparrott 12-20-2011 07:35 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I've only been asked to serve on jury duty once, and the dates of the duty conflicted with military orders sending me overseas. I posted a copy of my orders to the issuing court and was released from the duty. Since then, I've been lucky, I guess.

larryace 12-20-2011 07:39 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Can you be on a jury if you've broken a law, were caught and found guilty?

eddiehimself 01-11-2012 08:17 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 929869)
Can you be on a jury if you've broken a law, were caught and found guilty?

No idea but apparently being a student disqualifies you from it so that's good news for me :)

Spectron 01-11-2012 10:06 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I got selected for jury duty, forgot to reply to the letter, forgot to show up for selection
never did anything to reposnd to the inquiry...so far nothing has happened

I'm slightly worried
there's probably a warrant for my arrest now...LOL

GRUNTERSDAD 01-11-2012 11:27 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
I have been called three times, served twice. Both times serving everyone in the jury took the job seriously. 3 day trial, 1.5 days of deliberation. One trial was all done in one day. The third time we reported at 9 AM and at 3 PM we were still being asked questions by the attorneys. This time I was dismissed. I look at it this way. You don't get called often. People died to give me the right for a jury trial, and If I ever need a jury to decide my fate, I would hope they would be serious for at least one week in their life. I liked both times because you really get a chance to see how our system works. Trust me it is not the circus you see on TV shows. Like Calf. if you have a drivers license, a privilege, then you have the obligation, to serve your county, state, or Country. Not waving the flag, but it really doesn't hurt.

sticks4drums 01-11-2012 11:31 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 941178)
I have been called three times, served twice. Both times serving everyone in the jury took the job seriously. 3 day trial, 1.5 days of deliberation. One trial was all done in one day. The third time we reported at 9 AM and at 3 PM we were still being asked questions by the attorneys. This time I was dismissed. I look at it this way. You don't get called often. People died to give me the right for a jury trial, and If I ever need a jury to decide my fate, I would hope they would be serious for at least one week in their life. I liked both times because you really get a chance to see how our system works. Trust me it is not the circus you see on TV shows. Like Calf. if you have a drivers license, a privilege, then you have the obligation, to serve your county, state, or Country. Not waving the flag, but it really doesn't hurt.

Well said. I totally agree!

eddiehimself 01-12-2012 03:09 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 941178)
I have been called three times, served twice. Both times serving everyone in the jury took the job seriously. 3 day trial, 1.5 days of deliberation. One trial was all done in one day. The third time we reported at 9 AM and at 3 PM we were still being asked questions by the attorneys. This time I was dismissed. I look at it this way. You don't get called often. People died to give me the right for a jury trial, and If I ever need a jury to decide my fate, I would hope they would be serious for at least one week in their life. I liked both times because you really get a chance to see how our system works. Trust me it is not the circus you see on TV shows. Like Calf. if you have a drivers license, a privilege, then you have the obligation, to serve your county, state, or Country. Not waving the flag, but it really doesn't hurt.

In Britain you will only get called up if you are on the electoral register and in all honesty I am happy to go forego the privelidge of having a "vote" that will count for nothing because the opposing party's MP always gets elected and due to our outdated election system if your MP doesn't get elected then your vote is completely wasted, in order to not have to waste my time going to court when I've done nothing wrong.

toddy 01-12-2012 11:38 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
i think it's a privilege to have jury duty
some people see it as a chore, i kinda like the whole idea of it

my only complaint is we don't get turns at being the judge or lawyer

GRUNTERSDAD 01-12-2012 11:54 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Yep the Judges and Lawyers are a stingy bunch. They never share.

Boom 01-13-2012 07:37 AM

Re: here is a question.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 941178)
I have been called three times, served twice. Both times serving everyone in the jury took the job seriously. 3 day trial, 1.5 days of deliberation. One trial was all done in one day. The third time we reported at 9 AM and at 3 PM we were still being asked questions by the attorneys. This time I was dismissed. I look at it this way. You don't get called often. People died to give me the right for a jury trial, and If I ever need a jury to decide my fate, I would hope they would be serious for at least one week in their life. I liked both times because you really get a chance to see how our system works. Trust me it is not the circus you see on TV shows. Like Calf. if you have a drivers license, a privilege, then you have the obligation, to serve your county, state, or Country. Not waving the flag, but it really doesn't hurt.

I say we have a Gruntersday celebration once a year in tribute to this post :) Well said. While the only time I was called felt like an inconvenience at first, once I was there, I was proud to do my part and took the job very seriously. I was dismissed but would have served with no problem for the reasons GD says here.

bobdadruma 01-13-2012 12:28 PM

Re: here is a question.
 
Just tell the Judge that you are a drummer and he will declare you mentally incompetent to serve on a jury.
Simple as that! ;)


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