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-   -   Words and spin (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78667)

Pollyanna 07-16-2011 02:26 AM

Words and spin
 
As they say in jazz, it's what you do but the way that you do it.

I'm blown away by the amazing spin by Rebekah Brooks, CEO of News International (who own Fox, all the Murdoch press etc), who announced her resignation after the organisation was found to be bugging the phones of crime victims to get a scoop:
"I feel a deep sense of responsibility for the people we have hurt and I reiterate how sorry I am for what we now know to have taken place," she said in a statement.

"I have believed that the right and responsible action has been to lead us through the heat of the crisis. However, my desire to remain on the bridge has made me a focal point of the debate. This is now detracting from all our honest endeavours to fix the problems of the past.
Doncha love it? She - an innocent victim of a few bad apples - is nobly sacrificing herself (after wanting to take responsibility) because people won't be able to understand how she could preside over a (so-called formerly) corrupt media organisation and not be aware of it.

I have never known a time when the public conversation domain was so full of lies, distortion and spin. Music is my respite ...

aydee 07-16-2011 05:19 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Pol,

The public domain is rotten all the way up and down and around. Its systemic and I'm really not sure if individuals can truly be held accountable, though some are more guilty than others.

If it isnt controlled by lobby groups, big money, versted interests, it is controlled by little people who will stop at nothing to gain TRPs

I think the development of social media into a chaotic, free wheeling, uncontrollable network will be the true public domain in the future.

...

Zickos 07-16-2011 05:26 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 866731)

I have never known a time when the public conversation domain was so full of lies, distortion and spin. Music is my respite ...

I'm with you, Pol. Makes you not want to stay tuned, but you have to. What's that quote about music and the savage beast?

Pollyanna 07-16-2011 08:33 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 866810)
The public domain rotten all the way up and down and around. Its systemic and I'm really not sure if individuals can truly be held accountable, though some are more guilty than others.

... I think the development of social media into a chaotic, free wheeling, uncontrollable network will be the true public domain in the future.

The scary thing is that, compared with most Asian, African, Middle Eastern and South American systems the west is squeaky clean.

I think some govts are pretty keen to control the web, especially China, who's now the world's most powerful player.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zickos (Post 866814)
I'm with you, Pol. Makes you not want to stay tuned, but you have to. What's that quote about music and the savage beast?

Yep, it even almost tames me!

BassDriver 07-16-2011 08:42 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Words and spin
Indeed, language is a powerful tool. It is a heat-seeking missile and a shield at the same time.

Quote:

I think the development of social media into a chaotic, free wheeling, uncontrollable network will be the true public domain in the future.
That is why the internet (the great social media) is so great. Unlike other mediums of exchange (like currency) it is decentralised and (largely) unregulated, allowing such conversations as this to occur.

The way I see the internet is that it is almost like your free market of curious discussion...

...it is the thing people like us like as a rebellion against a mass media that expels spin.

keep it simple 07-16-2011 11:50 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Spin is a part of our very basic communication platform. We all use it every day, from persuading a child to eat vegetables, to delivering bad news with empathy. It's only when those skills are applied to manipulation/augmentation of the truth as a means of deflection that there's a sour taste left in the mouth.

On a separate but related point, isn't it interesting that the very people who now champion the "peoples" thirst for public assertion of morality in the press, are the same individuals who courted favour from senior press executives to further their own ends. The politicians are on a PR win/win here. Also, when RB admitted making payments to the police for information, the establishment PR machine only pointed out that it was illegal for the press to have made those payments. Absolutely bloody nothing was said about the illegality & gross immorality of the police to solicit & accept such payments! Now that I am worried about, although not surprised.

aaajn 07-16-2011 12:10 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 866731)
As they say in jazz, it's what you do but the way that you do it.

I'm blown away by the amazing spin by Rebekah Brooks, CEO of News International (who own Fox, all the Murdoch press etc), who announced her resignation after the organisation was found to be bugging the phones of crime victims to get a scoop:
"I feel a deep sense of responsibility for the people we have hurt and I reiterate how sorry I am for what we now know to have taken place," she said in a statement.

"I have believed that the right and responsible action has been to lead us through the heat of the crisis. However, my desire to remain on the bridge has made me a focal point of the debate. This is now detracting from all our honest endeavours to fix the problems of the past.
Doncha love it? She - an innocent victim of a few bad apples - is nobly sacrificing herself (after wanting to take responsibility) because people won't be able to understand how she could preside over a (so-called formerly) corrupt media organisation and not be aware of it.

I have never known a time when the public conversation domain was so full of lies, distortion and spin. Music is my respite ...

this belongs in the way off topic lounge but here is a spin example that makes my skin crawl. for the last few months, our Congress and President can't seem to agree on how to balance the budget. About three months ago, they threatened to close down all but essential services to in the government. One of those services is the civilian office that writes out pay checks for military, Air Force, Army, Marines, Coast Guard, Navy.

Right now, there are lots of people overseas doing dangerous stuff. Most are paid pretty well, but the younger ones sometimes live paycheck to paycheck. If they shut the government down, there is a huge delay in getting soldiers paid. I saw real fear in their eyes: "Look sir, we wont have rent money if my check is late".

The spin part is when the Poli's get on TV and make their case that is the other parties fault. The line that makes my skin crawl is when the open their diatribe with the following:

"First, I just want to say that we have to do everything we can to make our military secure and support those serving in harms way"......

OK, now that I said I honor the military, the next 20 minutes of vitriol that pours from my pie hole if free game, I can say anything I want, do anything I want, block, tackle, argue, not get the budget done but its OK because I said I support the troops.

Down here we have an expression that I hope nobody ever says about any of us: "Bless his/her heart". You know that whatever comes next after BHH is going be rough. Bless his heart, that boy is so stupid, ugly, dumb, wrong, jerk.... What ever. Bless his heart is a spin, a prep that precedes a tail whooping.

My other favorite spin is when celebs apologize on their way into rehab for sex, drugs, alchohol, assholism, and all the other ism's. Hey just go to rehab, your popularity will go up. All the in-crowd is doing it.

Well all I can say is: Bless their hearts.

Pollyanna 07-16-2011 04:00 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aaajn (Post 866913)
My other favorite spin is when celebs apologize on their way into rehab for sex, drugs, alchohol, assholism, and all the other ism's. Hey just go to rehab, your popularity will go up. All the in-crowd is doing it.

Well all I can say is: Bless their hearts.

haha ... not to mention high flying executives who suffer sudden memory loss on the way to court after they've been found out with their fingers in the till. Or they are sooo damaged by the stress they've been rendered non functional.

I think that any high flyer claiming memory loss before a grilling should be tossed in gaol (US: jail) for contempt. Sure, it's possible that they're not fudging but I reckon you'd catch out 500 cheaters for every miscarriage of justice.

I should have called this the Give Us Reality thread :)

IDDrummer 07-16-2011 04:21 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
With the state of the world, I find myself only really happy about two things - my (adult)child is healthy, and I'm at least half way finished with this rat race, statistically speaking.

When I was a youngster, I used to think it would be cool to be a vampire, to live forever. Now I'd view that as the worst of all punishments.

Ah well, at least I can still drum to kill the pain...

mediocrefunkybeat 07-16-2011 04:59 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
I just bought Saturday's Guardian.

This is going to be a bloodbath.

Pollyanna 07-16-2011 05:01 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer (Post 866954)
When I was a youngster, I used to think it would be cool to be a vampire, to live forever.

LOL ... it never appealed to me ... there was always this master vamp who'd tell you what to do.

Here's a nice photo of me in vamp mode about 10 years ago. There may be a small amount of Photoshopping involved ...

Ian Williams 07-16-2011 05:08 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Hey Miss.Bombo! cool photo for an avatar...you can suck my blood! ;*) hahaha...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 866964)
LOL ... it never appealed to me ... there was always this master vamp who'd tell you what to do.

Here's a nice photo of me in vamp mode about 10 years ago. There may be a small amount of Photoshopping involved ...


8Mile 07-16-2011 05:22 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Yeah, the spin game is unbearable for me. I can't take it. I just want the truth, but nobody else seems interested. A dry, boring, spin-free account of events is what I want from my media but it's almost impossible to find. I hate the partisan politics game everyone in my country wants to play. What's right and what's real take a back seat to "my side needs to win." Politics features more "go team!" sentiment than any sporting event. At least some sports fans have learned to get past homerism and objectively critique their team. If you do that in politics, you're ostracized from the party immediately.

It's a dismal thing, and I agree that excess of media choices compounds it. Politicos can get away with murder and still maintain a passionate support base. You can ALWAYS find someone who defends the actions of even the most unconscionable people. Partly because anyone can blog an idiotic opinion and partly because controversy sells, so it pays to write something stupid or inflammatory even if you don't actually mean it.

I think it's interesting how people come about choosing their hobbies. In a lot of cases, our hobbies probably represent an escape from the things we don't like. Music is a great escape from almost anything, I guess. I'm an avid chess player, and one of the things I love about it is that truth trumps bull****. You can't spin your way out of a bad position. It's checkmate, motherf*****, and you lose. It also teaches humility, because there's always someone who can kick your a** and you have to learn how to deal with that in an honest way.

mediocrefunkybeat 07-16-2011 05:26 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile (Post 866970)
Yeah, the spin game is unbearable for me. I can't take it. I just want the truth, but nobody else seems interested. A dry, boring, spin-free account of events is what I want from my media but it's almost impossible to find. I hate the partisan politics game everyone in my country wants to play. What's right and what's real take a back seat to "my side needs to win." Politics features more "go team!" sentiment than any sporting event. At least some sports fans have learned to get past homerism and objectively critique their team. If you do that in politics, you're ostracized from the party immediately.

It's a dismal thing, and I agree that excess of media choices compounds it. Politicos can get away with murder and still maintain a passionate support base. You can ALWAYS find someone who defends the actions of even the most unconscionable people. Partly because anyone can blog an idiotic opinion and partly because controversy sells, so it pays to write something stupid or inflammatory even if you don't actually mean it.

Preaching to the crowd here. I'm with you on this absolutely. Party Politics does not make for accountability and it drives me mad.

GRUNTERSDAD 07-16-2011 05:29 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
It bothers me that they are only sorry, and knew nothing about it until they are caught. A journal is a daily account of one's activities. A journalist is one who writes
said journals. Newpaper hacks don't want to write journals, or what happened in the news. They want to make the news. They feel that nothing is illegal as long as they are the first rag to report some dirt. The whole industry needs to take a step back and realign their values and ethics. I tire of news media that use the words,"we were the first to bring you this story" Usually it means we have some bits and pieces and we are going to guess and use conjecture to tell you what we think happened. I would rather hear, "we are the last to report this story, but have all of our ducks in a row."

GRUNTERSDAD 07-16-2011 05:30 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer (Post 866954)
With the state of the world, I find myself only really happy about two things - my (adult)child is healthy, and I'm at least half way finished with this rat race, statistically speaking.

When I was a youngster, I used to think it would be cool to be a vampire, to live forever. Now I'd view that as the worst of all punishments.

Ah well, at least I can still drum to kill the pain...

+1 brother....................

mxo721 07-16-2011 05:32 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
yeh, here's two of my favourites: poor person alcoholic = dirt-bag wealthy person alcoholic= role model and beacon of courage. poor person during disaster = " looter" wealthy person during disaster " finding stuff" lol those are real quotes from the news.

IDDrummer 07-16-2011 05:40 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 866964)
LOL ... it never appealed to me ... there was always this master vamp who'd tell you what to do.

Here's a nice photo of me in vamp mode about 10 years ago. There may be a small amount of Photoshopping involved ...

Nice pic Pol! It would have looked good even if you hadn't added the glasses with Photoshop!

Ian Williams 07-16-2011 06:18 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Absolutely True!

News media, Public conversation and Politicians (Políticos) have turned themselves into non-accountable bureaucratic cowards and sick people...Corruption is their God...in many ways.

Very few people are kept straight and honest in nowadays. You can count them with the fingers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 866731)
I have never known a time when the public conversation domain was so full of lies, distortion and spin. Music is my respite ...


aaajn 07-16-2011 09:50 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Well this thread is certainly helping my double stroke roll. Gives me something to think about when I am trying to lose myself. :-)

But here is one that has baffled me and I would love to hear from our colleagues across the pond and ditch on this:

How is it that newpapers can back a political candidate? Here in the states, many newspapers will endorse a candidate for public office,

"The Daily Blab today published their Op-Ed piece that Joe Bago-dounuts is the superior candidate over Ivana Humpalotski in the next town council election."

How can a newspaper endorse a candidate, doesnt that automatically make it an opinion paper?

One baht prize to whoever figures that one out.

J

Pollyanna 07-17-2011 03:35 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile (Post 866970)
Yeah, the spin game is unbearable for me. I can't take it. I just want the truth, but nobody else seems interested. A dry, boring, spin-free account of events is what I want from my media but it's almost impossible to find. I hate the partisan politics game everyone in my country wants to play. What's right and what's real take a back seat to "my side needs to win." Politics features more "go team!" sentiment than any sporting event. At least some sports fans have learned to get past homerism and objectively critique their team. If you do that in politics, you're ostracized from the party immediately.

It's a dismal thing, and I agree that excess of media choices compounds it. Politicos can get away with murder and still maintain a passionate support base. You can ALWAYS find someone who defends the actions of even the most unconscionable people. Partly because anyone can blog an idiotic opinion and partly because controversy sells, so it pays to write something stupid or inflammatory even if you don't actually mean it.

I think it's interesting how people come about choosing their hobbies. In a lot of cases, our hobbies probably represent an escape from the things we don't like. Music is a great escape from almost anything, I guess. I'm an avid chess player, and one of the things I love about it is that truth trumps bull****. You can't spin your way out of a bad position. It's checkmate, motherf*****, and you lose. It also teaches humility, because there's always someone who can kick your a** and you have to learn how to deal with that in an honest way.

Right on the button, 8Mile.


Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer (Post 866978)
Nice pic Pol! It would have looked good even if you hadn't added the glasses with Photoshop!

Oh, you noticed! :) Vampirism is not dead, it just smells funny ...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Williams (Post 866990)
News media, Public conversation and Politicians (Políticos) have turned themselves into non-accountable bureaucratic cowards and sick people...Corruption is their God...in many ways.

People always blame the politicians. They're small fry.

I blame the politicians' bosses - the big corporations. Seems to me that government just performs the role of a big shared services administrative unit for the big corporations, who make all the decisions.

Somehow, actions that would be considered utter bastardry by individuals are "sensible" for corporations. Individuals are so much nicer than crowds.


Quote:

Originally Posted by aaajn (Post 867063)
How is it that newpapers can back a political candidate?

Because they are totally focused on self interest - the candidate that most benefits them and their mates. In other words, they are corrupt.

Like others here, I just want real news. Facts.

In the meantime, music is my aeroplane ...

Pollyanna 07-17-2011 03:48 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
I just gets richer ... Murdoch, after his organisation was busted for phone tapping crime victims for a scoop:
"We are deeply sorry for the hurt suffered by the individuals affected. We regret not acting faster to sort things out."

... The day before, the world's most powerful media mogul was "humbled" and held his head in his hands as he apologised to Milly Dowler's family for the hacking of the murdered schoolgirl's phone by the News of the World.
This is the guy who once boasted that there's never been a government in power that he didn't want. He's humbled. He holds his head in his hands ... where's the bucket? ... and all it means is he'll make sure they don't get caught again.

"Not reacting faster" ... never mind being interested in ethics and having measures in place to prevent this stuff happening.

BassDriver 07-17-2011 04:24 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Somehow, actions that would be considered utter bastardry by individuals are "sensible" for corporations. Individuals are so much nicer than crowds.
Food for thought...don't crowds just reflect the basic nature of the individuals that make them up?

I have posted this video many times but topics like these make me think back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX...eature=related

Pollyanna 07-17-2011 07:28 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 867160)
I have posted this video many times but topics like these make me think back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX...eature=related

Nice ... but I'm more of a George Carlin gal, myself :)

GRUNTERSDAD 07-17-2011 03:38 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Rebekah Brooks reportedly arrested in hacking scandal

The spin may have been halted.

aydee 07-18-2011 07:57 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 867272)
Rebekah Brooks reportedly arrested in hacking scandal

The spin may have been halted.

You know what...... I think she is actually Mick Hucknall from Simply Red in disguise.

( Smart late-career move but you can't fool me, Mick. )


PS-

Attachment 42367

....

Pollyanna 07-18-2011 10:35 AM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 867560)
You know what...... I think she is actually Mick Hucknall from Simply Red in disguise.

( Smart late-career move but you can't fool me Mick. )

I thought she looked familiar!

aaajn 07-18-2011 12:35 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Wow, didn't see that coming. I think Rupert Murdoch looks like a myriad of Harry Potter characters, never the good guys though.

Question From a CONUS dweller, (Continental US). How can RB go from regretting that she can't help steer the organization through troubled waters to getting arrested? This whole affair seems like a recipe for Politics plus media plus $$$$ = disaster.

Pollyanna 07-18-2011 01:10 PM

Re: Words and spin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 867560)
You know what...... I think she is actually Mick Hucknall from Simply Red in disguise.

Try googling for: rebekah brooks mick hucknall ... funny! Someone reckons Mick will play Rebekah in Hackgate - The Movie :)


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