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-   -   Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78068)

DrumEatDrum 07-01-2011 09:32 PM

Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
For those who keep wondering if computers will replace people in music, in Japan, they have!

Although at least they still have real people for the live show.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tec....cnn?hpt=hp_c2

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GRUNTERSDAD 07-01-2011 10:17 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Ever hear of the Archies??

chaymus 07-01-2011 10:55 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
That's pretty neat. Cartoon bands like Gorillaz and DeathKloc border on this too.
It's odd to think of how Milli vanilli was lambasted for lip synching and how warm a reception it receives now. The composite girl seems to get past the uncanny valley well, scary thought but a testament to the technology level they've reached.

Bo Eder 07-01-2011 10:58 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Does anybody here think Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are real people to begin with? With pop stars like that, why go to the trouble to create one in the computer?

;)

DrumEatDrum 07-01-2011 11:34 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 861337)
Ever hear of the Archies??

Valid point. But I don't think anyone ever paid money to see the Archies "live in concert."

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaymus (Post 861345)
That's pretty neat. Cartoon bands like Gorillaz and DeathKloc border on this too.
It's odd to think of how Milli vanilli was lambasted for lip synching and how warm a reception it receives now. The composite girl seems to get past the uncanny valley well, scary thought but a testament to the technology level they've reached.

With Deathloc, everyone knows there are real people behind it. I put that more as an extension of Kiss and Gwar, just taken to the next level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 861346)
Does anybody here think Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are real people to begin with? With pop stars like that, why go to the trouble to create one in the computer?

;)

LOL...

bermuda 07-01-2011 11:34 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chaymus (Post 861345)
It's odd to think of how Milli vanilli was lambasted for lip synching and how warm a reception it receives now.

The difference there is that Milli Vanilli lip-synched to someone else's voices, not their own. At least with Britney et al, they sang the songs in the first place.

Bermuda

Dr_Watso 07-02-2011 12:01 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 861355)
The difference there is that Milli Vanilli lip-synched to someone else's voices, not their own. At least with Britney et al, they sang the songs in the first place.

Bermuda

If only they had auto-tune back then, too; they might still have their trophies!

larryace 07-02-2011 12:51 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
And the music is really bitchin too.

Jeff Almeyda 07-03-2011 02:13 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
The wild part is that we are not that far away from a time in which the simulations will be entirely indistinguishable from reality. The implications are overwhelming.

Pollyanna 07-03-2011 03:01 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
These guys need to lift their game! They still need real singers for the voice to go with the sequencer and drum machine.

It's important to rub out all traces of humanity so everything can be clean, perfect and cheap. Then they can auto-generate compositions with lyrics written in in C++ for the discerning robot consumer.

aydee 07-03-2011 03:03 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 861337)
Ever hear of the Archies??

..and Reggie, and Jughead, and Betty, and Veronica, Big Ethel, and Moose, and Dilton, and Mr. Weatherbee.....sigh..

you triggered some memories..

...

TheGroceryman 07-03-2011 07:50 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
I don't get how the business side of this stuff works. Who gets the money? The royalties? Do the actual musicians get paid more? Do the technical developers of the "fake" pop star get any money from record/tour sales? Who do they pay for that toyota advertisement? Is this form of pop star more lucrative than a real one? What are the industry motives here?? Would this change the industry for the better? Or worse...??

So much innovation these days.

gwaco 07-03-2011 08:17 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
I think it sucks! Don't mean to be blunt about it...

Bo Eder 07-03-2011 09:13 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGroceryman (Post 861994)
I don't get how the business side of this stuff works. Who gets the money? The royalties? Do the actual musicians get paid more? Do the technical developers of the "fake" pop star get any money from record/tour sales? Who do they pay for that toyota advertisement? Is this form of pop star more lucrative than a real one? What are the industry motives here?? Would this change the industry for the better? Or worse...??

So much innovation these days.

Hard to say as I would guess every situation would be different. But I had a friend get on some "making the band" reality tv show (similar to American Idol, I guess), and the contract of winning was downright horrendous. Everything you do is for the shows' producers. Everytime you go out and make money, they're entitled to most of it since they made you the star. You do get paid, but it'sl ike you're an employee of the company. You had to sign waivers giving up your rights to anything original you might do.

She was happy to have been eliminated early on.

Pollyanna 07-04-2011 02:33 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 862023)
Hard to say as I would guess every situation would be different. But I had a friend get on some "making the band" reality tv show (similar to American Idol, I guess), and the contract of winning was downright horrendous. Everything you do is for the shows' producers. Everytime you go out and make money, they're entitled to most of it since they made you the star. You do get paid, but it'sl ike you're an employee of the company. You had to sign waivers giving up your rights to anything original you might do.

She was happy to have been eliminated early on.

That's an eye-opener, although maybe not surprising. The best result would be to get deep into the competition and gain a profile, and then get eliminated to hunt a decent deal from a position of relative power while leaving the winner to pick up the booby prize.

Has there ever been a time when the scene hasn't been full of shysters? I can't think of one. The contractual horror stories seem to stretch back to the 50s.

Deathmetalconga 07-04-2011 07:48 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 861362)
If only they had auto-tune back then, too; they might still have their trophies!

They had something like it: the vocoder. It made your voice sound just as unnatural.

Pollyanna 07-04-2011 10:56 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 862191)
They had something like it: the vocoder. It made your voice sound just as unnatural.

Yes, and it was quite effective in prog at times. Really, auto-tune in itself isn't a bad effect, just that it's being used like a kid with a new toy, with little care for appropriateness of context. For me, there's also a sense of anti-humanness about the way it's used, which really gets up my (old) nose.

Mark_S 07-04-2011 11:12 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 861346)
Does anybody here think Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are real people to begin with? With pop stars like that, why go to the trouble to create one in the computer?

;)

She was real, once...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_hHc7TZjyY

mediocrefunkybeat 07-04-2011 02:15 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 862224)
Yes, and it was quite effective in prog at times. Really, auto-tune in itself isn't a bad effect, just that it's being used like a kid with a new toy, with little care for appropriateness of context. For me, there's also a sense of anti-humanness about the way it's used, which really gets up my (old) nose.

The problem is, it's a toy that the kid has had for over a decade...

Ian Williams 07-04-2011 04:16 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Those "Gorillaz" are very tricky...

evolving_machine 07-04-2011 08:14 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Pop has for many years been a programed form of music. I remember listening to an interview with Richard Carpenter (the brother of Karen Carpenter). He was saying that he was able to write a new pop hit easily because he knew the formula. I remember Neil Sedaka, saying something similar. Really, what is the difference between, orchestrating on a moog synthesizer, or a modern electronic keyboard and writing out the charts for all the instruments? One person programs or writes the music, and the others will add very little of their own musical ideas.

I did hear that someone was able to make a program to write compositions in the styles of famous classical and jazz composers. What would bother me though, would be when they create a program that would be able to improvise in jazz along with other musicians.

As far as creating cartoons that move and look like people, I do not have any problems with that. No matter how real looking the cartoons are.

halldaniel21 07-08-2011 03:12 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
I tell you something is definitely going down wrong in these Asian countries, they are so much hooked up to beauty that they are into computer generated characters or lip sync girl at the Country’s Annual Events in China.
Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402093,00.html

Pollyanna 07-09-2011 12:24 AM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halldaniel21 (Post 863921)
I tell you something is definitely going down wrong in these Asian countries, they are so much hooked up to beauty that they are into computer generated characters or lip sync girl at the Country’s Annual Events in China.
Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402093,00.html

That's not about being an Asian country - it's about being a poor relation trying to impress the big boys (ie. the west). It's also, dare I say it, about patriarchy.

How about Milli Vanilli's lip synching scandal? Why were the group even needed? ... weren't the ghost musicians behind the scenes cute or cool enough?

unfunkyfooted 07-09-2011 05:55 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 864118)
That's not about being an Asian country - it's about being a poor relation trying to impress the big boys (ie. the west). It's also, dare I say it, about patriarchy.

How about Milli Vanilli's lip synching scandal? Why were the group even needed? ... weren't the ghost musicians behind the scenes cute or cool enough?

i agree completely about Milli Vanilli.

i think their audience was so stupid that they were dancing to the cover. to be fair the studio cats and chicks were given a shot, but nobody wanted to hear it. Fab and Rob tried to do it for real with great coaching and put out a pretty good record (as performed on Arsenio - who was at the root of their unmasking - he ragged them MERCILESSLY right up until the record skipped and on until the eventual unmasking), but nobody wanted to hear it.

that tells you who we play for. not that everyone should know music inside out like we attempt to. Jane Doe doesn't need to know what a Mean 90 is, but she should like the record she always liked, even if it''s not by the people who she thought it was by. unless of course, she was dancing to the cover. or he. duh-huhhhh.

eddiehimself 07-09-2011 08:02 PM

Re: Music Pop Stars no longer have to be actual people
 
Now they just need to have a virtual girlfriend you can switch on and off and update whenever you like then life would be perfect.


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