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-   -   Swearing Fines (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76759)

BassDriver 05-31-2011 10:37 AM

Swearing Fines
 
Is this not over the top?!

I know there are forum rules about what you can and cannot say and what you can discuss (eg. politics)...but I think this is absolutely ridiculous.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bi...530-1fctb.html

What about movies?...they are shown to members of the public and many of them have swear words - I know they have classifications but seriously?!

Are there any police officers that would really fine you for swearing?...cops are people too...

What kind of lawmakers even made this in the first place?

I think there are better things governments could do, like not getting involved in what I have to say (whether it does or does not offend anyone).

Victoria is the nanny state.

Pollyanna 05-31-2011 11:13 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
I just read about this. I would think the biggest problem would be disturbance of the peace with outrageous shouting at stupid hours - no swearing necessary for that.

I wonder if it will spread up to NSW?

Naigewron 05-31-2011 11:16 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
A swearing ban in AUSTRALIA? This will at least triple the state's income :-)

Seriously, this is just retarded.

Nodiggie 05-31-2011 11:20 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
If they enacted this at my Truck Shop alone California would solve their money problems in no time.

mediocrefunkybeat 05-31-2011 11:50 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
I'd like to see them trying to put this in action in the next Ashes series in Aus...

eddiehimself 05-31-2011 12:03 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
In this country you can be ARRESTED and charged 80 for "public disorder" if you swear too many times in front of a police officer.

Pollyanna 05-31-2011 12:05 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
I wonder how they'll define "swearing"? How about bloody? Bum / bottom / poo / wee wee? Turd? Hmm, that would be tricky.

What if someone sidesteps at the last moment and says shi ... vers? Fu ... ar out?

Seriously, this would seem a handy tool for dealing with civil disobedience, which is not good.

eddiehimself 05-31-2011 12:13 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 849260)
I wonder how they'll define "swearing"? How about bloody? Bum / bottom / poo / wee wee? Turd? Hmm, that would be tricky.

What if someone sidesteps at the last moment and says shi ... vers? Fu ... ar out?

Seriously, this would seem a handy tool for dealing with civil disobedience, which is not good.

Here is how it is defined in the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassm...rm_or_distress

It just says anything that is construed as being "threatening, abusive or insulting" can be used as grounds for arrest. So presumably if you call someone a poo-head then that is probably an offence.

Pollyanna 05-31-2011 12:41 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
I've heard about the public disorder law in the UK. The more crowded we get, the more the screws tighten ...

jonescrusher 05-31-2011 01:03 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 849263)
I've heard about the public disorder law in the UK. The more crowded we get, the more the screws tighten ...


Seems like there is no public disorder law in the average town centre! Trevors and Julies roaming at will calling innocent people wee-wee head this and and poo face that....

Pocket-full-of-gold 05-31-2011 01:28 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naigewron (Post 849245)
A swearing ban in AUSTRALIA? This will at least triple the state's income :-)

Seriously, this is just retarded.

Yep....that's me screwed.....right royally. My mouth will have me in the poor house!!

jingscrivenshelpmaboab 05-31-2011 01:37 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
This wont take hold in Scotland, swearing is part of our fuc*ing language.

Pollyanna 05-31-2011 01:38 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonescrusher (Post 849267)
Seems like there is no public disorder law in the average town centre! Trevors and Julies roaming at will calling innocent people wee-wee head this and and poo face that....

lol ... the worst I experienced was right at home about 10 years ago. An alcoholic living in my block of flats and her junkie b/f had a massive screaming match at 4am on Thursday morning in the driveway right outside my bedroom window. She was kicking him out and they had the volume at 11.

I was about to tell them to STFU (bugger the law) when I heard this exchange:

"A knife! A knife??!! You tried to stab me!! That's not what you do with a knife!!"

Pause. I'm thinking, no, a knife is for cutting vegetables ...

"A knife is for people who deserve it, not for innocent people!!"

At that point I closed the window.

PFOG, with the new law you're well and truly fu ... dged.

eddiehimself 05-31-2011 01:59 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 849274)
lol ... the worst I experienced was right at home about 10 years ago. An alcoholic living in my block of flats and her junkie b/f had a massive screaming match at 4am on Thursday morning in the driveway right outside my bedroom window. She was kicking him out and they had the volume at 11.

I was about to tell them to STFU (bugger the law) when I heard this exchange:

"A knife! A knife??!! You tried to stab me!! That's not what you do with a knife!!"

Pause. I'm thinking, no, a knife is for cutting vegetables ...

"A knife is for people who deserve it, not for innocent people!!"

At that point I closed the window.

PFOG, with the new law you're well and truly fu ... dged.

lol that just reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqghpm4gXf4

Pollyanna 05-31-2011 02:20 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 849280)
lol that just reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqghpm4gXf4

haha ... enjoyed the most popular comment on that vid so much that ... http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?p=849286

Stalwart_Pandora-Chris 05-31-2011 05:53 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Swearing won't help Scotland haha. Everyone swears every three seconds here, even the police.

So the fine should be dropped I think.

eddiehimself 05-31-2011 06:53 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalwart_Pandora-Chris (Post 849341)
Swearing won't help Scotland haha. Everyone swears every three seconds here, even the police.

So the fine should be dropped I think.

I think they do arrest people for section 5 of the public order act, but that's usually if they decide they don't like them...

Drummer Sarah 05-31-2011 07:36 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
They'd make a hell of a lot of money around where I live! It's chav central!

Stalwart_Pandora-Chris 05-31-2011 08:35 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer Sarah (Post 849375)
They'd make a hell of a lot of money around where I live! It's chav central!

Scotland is bad... Especially the whereabouts of Glasgow.
Edinburghs quiet though, there's loads of goths and emos running around and the police barely patrol. Not to mention there isn't much smog compared to Glasgow.

I'd love to move to Edinburgh or the Highlands, only shipping charges are a rip-off to the Highlands.

aaajn 05-31-2011 09:17 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodiggie (Post 849247)
If they enacted this at my Truck Shop alone California would solve their money problems in no time.

I was just telling the sisters on the orphanage that they needed to clean it up or else. This might be the way to go. Get rid of the #@%&*ing bake sales.

mediocrefunkybeat 05-31-2011 09:28 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalwart_Pandora-Chris (Post 849385)
Scotland is bad... Especially the whereabouts of Glasgow.
Edinburghs quiet though, there's loads of goths and emos running around and the police barely patrol. Not to mention there isn't much smog compared to Glasgow.

I'd love to move to Edinburgh or the Highlands, only shipping charges are a rip-off to the Highlands.

One of my friends is moving to Orkney. Having been there many years ago, I'd like to go with her!

nhzoso 05-31-2011 10:44 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
LOL, How sad.. Thats the way of the world though..Big brother will look out for you..

this part kills me.


"Attorney-General Robert Clark said the idea was to lower the police workload by allowing them to issue fines instead of tackling bad language using the court system."


So apparently you can not go to court and dispute it?? That would never fly up here...Yet : )

Pollyanna 06-02-2011 10:51 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 849448)
LOL, How sad.. Thats the way of the world though..Big brother will look out for you..

Which big brother? The gummint or the really Big Brothers who tell the gummint what to do?

The gummint cannot do anything that the big guys don't want or they get thrown out so, given how little interest Rupert & co have shown in the issue, it's clear they're happy with the law.

jingscrivenshelpmaboab 06-02-2011 12:38 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
MFB, Orkney is one of the most astoundingly beautiful places on earth. If another opportunity arose for me to go there, I would be on it like a badger oan mince.
Chris, Edinburgh isnt much better than Glasgow. I would probably say its worse. Still, at least its not Dundee!

mediocrefunkybeat 06-02-2011 03:30 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jingscrivenshelpmaboab (Post 850079)
MFB, Orkney is one of the most astoundingly beautiful places on earth. If another opportunity arose for me to go there, I would be on it like a badger oan mince.
Chris, Edinburgh isnt much better than Glasgow. I would probably say its worse. Still, at least its not Dundee!

I went there when I was twelve and it was amazing. My Dad used to go up there every year with his sisters and parents until he was about seventeen and they used to stay with the same old couple each time in Birsay. They were still around when I went there and I stayed with them too.

My aunt actually has a house there - but I'm not sure I approve of a rich Southerner buying a second home in Orkney. I'm not sure if that would be considered fair on the local housing market. I would love to live there if the opportunity arose, but I'm not sure my other half would! She's stuck on an island at the moment and I'm not sure if she likes living away from major cities!

BassDriver 06-02-2011 03:44 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Which big brother? The gummint or the really Big Brothers who tell the gummint what to do?
I am sure "Big Brother" would have better things to do than stop people from swearing

..."good heavens!...we can't have that sort of debauchery happening"...

...no, this swearing matter is down to the courts and the police system

Anyhow, nineteen eighty-four and the last half of the twentieth century demonstrated how well you can control people by controlling the language, although people can thing outside of the confines of their language, language does shape thought to some extent.

I have heard a pithy quote somewhere:

"How do you tame a dragon?"
"Give it a name"

Quote:

This wont take hold in Scotland, swearing is part of our fuc*ing language.
Swearing is part of most languages, but the attitude to swearing is different to different cultures, age groups, social groups etc.

Like I said, I doubt a police officer would do this kind of thing...unless they were really p****d at someone.

Pollyanna 06-02-2011 06:00 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 850121)
I am sure "Big Brother" would have better things to do than stop people from swearing

..."good heavens!...we can't have that sort of debauchery happening"...

...no, this swearing matter is down to the courts and the police system

Anyhow, nineteen eighty-four and the last half of the twentieth century demonstrated how well you can control people by controlling the language, although people can thing outside of the confines of their language, language does shape thought to some extent.

I have heard a pithy quote somewhere:

"How do you tame a dragon?"
"Give it a name"



Swearing is part of most languages, but the attitude to swearing is different to different cultures, age groups, social groups etc.

Like I said, I doubt a police officer would do this kind of thing...unless they were really p****d at someone.

Yes, I think it's only going to be used when the police are cranky ... for now. What I don't like is that it could be used against civil disobedience because in those kinds of emotionally charged situations people tend to swear and this law makes it easy to shut them down.

Yep, I do think the real drivers of policy - big biz - care about it. Street loudmouths are bad for tourism, property prices in affected neighbourhoods ... and there are other costs.

N.I.B. 06-03-2011 12:45 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
I could see a few technical problems with this.

Say one guy who likes this law just so happens to get a recording of someone in a shouting match. The problem is that the audio quality is fuzzy / crappy and there's one bit where the guy sounds like he's cursing even though a reality check would reveal that he didn't curse. Would the guy's fate rest on whether or not the police think it sounds like cursing?

If there's no system for appealing these fines that's similar to how you go to court for speeding tickets (in America, at least), then that guy's screwed if the police think he's guilty.

Gotta love the inner workings of the government...

Pollyanna 06-03-2011 06:25 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by N.I.B. (Post 850298)
I could see a few technical problems with this.

Say one guy who likes this law just so happens to get a recording of someone in a shouting match. The problem is that the audio quality is fuzzy / crappy and there's one bit where the guy sounds like he's cursing even though a reality check would reveal that he didn't curse. Would the guy's fate rest on whether or not the police think it sounds like cursing?

If there's no system for appealing these fines that's similar to how you go to court for speeding tickets (in America, at least), then that guy's screwed if the police think he's guilty.

Gotta love the inner workings of the government...

Nah, the law will never be prosecuted via recordings. You have an on the spot fine for saying naughty words in front of police - most likely people who are calling them f* pigs or pissed out of their brains and have a random Tourette-like episode (hmm, nice discrimination case possibility for people with Tourette's :)

A year or so ago our prime minister was effectively sacked by our mining multinationals in tandem with the Murdoch press. No law is passed that does not meet the approval of the guys who really run the country.

Follow the $$ and you find out the reason for every law passed, rejected or amended.

baodes 06-03-2011 06:49 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
If they applied that here... This island's economy would soar up, up and away! But they wouldn't, cause the police and the government are the first to swear. XD

Pocket-full-of-gold 06-03-2011 08:37 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baodes (Post 850415)
But they wouldn't, cause the police and the government are the first to swear. XD

Hence the sheer bloody hypocrisy of this feeble ruling. 10 god damned years we waited for a change of government in this state - FWIW, I have no real political leaning, but it would be a very cold day in hell before the Victorian Labor Party ever received a vote of mine. A greater squanderer of other peoples money, you are never likely to lay eyes on.

We finally get one and THIS is the very best they can come up with??? Honestly! I feel like I'm back at kindergarten.

Bloody nanny state.....no question about it. Probably the only time in my life where I wish I was a Kiwi! :-)

Pollyanna 06-03-2011 10:37 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
The difference between Liberal and Labor? Minor tweaks. Two peas in a pod, as befitting the administrative arm of multinational companies.

As for the nanny state ... I haven't noticed a great hue and outcry. The Murdoch press don't seem interested and they're the ones who tell people what to think. Clearly they are relaxed and comfortable with it ...

BassDriver 06-03-2011 02:14 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
...and what ever happened to freedom of speech? If you say something in public someone is bound to be offended, that does not mean you should be shut up.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I like this kind of attitude, whether it is about swearing or the opinion you try to express. If you do not like what someone has to say, be reasonable.

Perhaps I am not the kind of person to support personally restrictive legislation if I get p****d at someone.

Politics and mass media thrives on spin, but so far (strangely enough Polly) the reaction to this legislation in the paper (which I often read) is not at all supportive...

...or maybe its because I choose to read The Age (Fairfax) instead of the Herald Sun (Newscorp)...both are still owned by huge multi-national companies.

Pollyanna 06-03-2011 03:36 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 850501)
Politics and mass media thrives on spin, but so far (strangely enough Polly) the reaction to this legislation in the paper (which I often read) is not at all supportive...

...or maybe its because I choose to read The Age (Fairfax) instead of the Herald Sun (Newscorp)...both are still owned by huge multi-national companies.

Fairfax leans towards Labor while News Ltd publications are basically the Liberal Daily ... and since it's a Liberal govt initiative the latter doesn't care. Both sides still favour miners and developers over little people apart from "human interest" and hard luck stories to pick up the votes of "the battlers".

Whatever, when it comes to influence - both here and abroad - Fairfax is small potatoes compared with the Murdoch empire.

Bear in mind that free speech isn't really free ... defamation, discrimination, incitement to violence, treason etc.

BassDriver 06-03-2011 04:16 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Bear in mind that free speech isn't really free ... defamation, discrimination, incitement to violence, treason etc.
True, true. People can talk all day about how us westerners enjoy "freedoms" but really there are a myriad of laws in the way of such things.

Quote:

Fairfax leans towards Labor while News Ltd publications are basically the Liberal Daily ... and since it's a Liberal govt initiative the latter doesn't care. Both sides still favour miners and developers over little people apart from "human interest" and hard luck stories to pick up the votes of "the battlers".
Hmmm...I always thought that The Age was a somewhat intellectual and conservative (both stylistically and content wise) newspaper, but the media takes sides and those sides are not always the same...they change what they report...

...these companies do not necessarily have to be so party-oriented, they are business minded.

Read with a critical mind.

I can almost see this thread being locked, so keep the tone calm.

Pollyanna 06-03-2011 04:42 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 850531)
True, true. People can talk all day about how us westerners enjoy "freedoms" but really there are a myriad of laws in the way of such things.

Personally, I don't mind speech restrictions up to a point. After all, we happily accept the no-swearing rule on this and other forums, which is administered in a commonsense way. No one seems to mind if it's not gratuitous or abusive.

Thing is, with freedom comes responsibility and, as we know, some people are either damaged goods or no damn good and - as the saying goes - they spoil it for everyone. Such is life. Get a big enough case of apples and you're going to get some bad ones.

When you think about it, we're restricted in what we "say" with drums too. If you say the wrong things with the kit you're judged in the court of public opinion. We spend a lot of our lives just reacting to things that crop up, that we have to do. You can't even be truly free alone on a desert island because Mother Nature won't let you have it all your own way.

The worst thing about the law is it's just another small step of restrictiveness, and it has a bit of a juvenile flavour ... naughty child, don't swear ... people would have actually sat in a room deliberating on this lol ... I guess all those complex issue papers on their desks didn't seem too inviting :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 850531)
Hmmm...I always thought that The Age was ... conservative

Yep, Labor Party, the other half of our democratic charade.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BassDriver (Post 850531)
... keep the tone calm.

I'll do my best :)

eddiehimself 06-03-2011 08:07 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 850536)
Personally, I don't mind speech restrictions up to a point. After all, we happily accept the no-swearing rule on this and other forums, which is administered in a commonsense way. No one seems to mind if it's not gratuitous or abusive.

Thing is, with freedom comes responsibility and, as we know, some people are either damaged goods or no damn good and - as the saying goes - they spoil it for everyone. Such is life. Get a big enough case of apples and you're going to get some bad ones.

When you think about it, we're restricted in what we "say" with drums too. If you say the wrong things with the kit you're judged in the court of public opinion. We spend a lot of our lives just reacting to things that crop up, that we have to do. You can't even be truly free alone on a desert island because Mother Nature won't let you have it all your own way.

The worst thing about the law is it's just another small step of restrictiveness, and it has a bit of a juvenile flavour ... naughty child, don't swear ... people would have actually sat in a room deliberating on this lol ... I guess all those complex issue papers on their desks didn't seem too inviting :)




Yep, Labor Party, the other half of our democratic charade.




I'll do my best :)

I don't like to, but i have to agree with you about rupert murdoch and his media empire, the new "British Empire" as it were. I personally blame the people for the state of our respective "democracies" though. The media tell us everything to think- but we don't have to listen to them. Unfortunately, the best chance we had to stop the "tribal politics" of the same 2 parties winning again and again in the UK which was a referendum on changing the voting system was crushed by a massive majority because of scaremongering by the big papers and parties.

Pollyanna 06-04-2011 03:37 AM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiehimself (Post 850605)
I don't like to, but i have to agree with you about rupert murdoch and his media empire, the new "British Empire" as it were. I personally blame the people for the state of our respective "democracies" though. The media tell us everything to think- but we don't have to listen to them. Unfortunately, the best chance we had to stop the "tribal politics" of the same 2 parties winning again and again in the UK which was a referendum on changing the voting system was crushed by a massive majority because of scaremongering by the big papers and parties.

Eddie, I know what you mean. I wish I was wrong too.

It starts with scrimping on education and getting people so busy with work and family that they don't have time to think. Sitting and thinking - meditation - is thought of as indolence today but over the years I'm coming to believe that taking time out to gain perspective on ourselves, people and our place in the universe is really, really important. That was supposed to be the point of religion but it got hijacked by clowns who just want to kick around independent women and gays (divide and rule is an easy way for inferior intellects to achieve power and the church hierarchies are a good example of this). Religion, like politics, seems more and more to resemble a football team.

Whatever, that's just where we are in the power cycle at the moment - a force rises, hubris sets in, it falls, another force rises ...

Not that I think the way things have transpired with our weakened democracies ("mediocracy" seems a fitting term for Rupert's Kingdom) has been the result of plotting and design ... no conspiracy theories here. It's just the result of opportunism by both big biz and governments over the years and the tendency of power to flow towards the powerful. No billionaire will be charged for swearing :)

Even if you have a big clean out as happened in the 1890s with the rise of the union movement when children were working in coal mines etc, the cycle just happens all over again ... growth, hubris, breakdown, compost, new growth ...

BassDriver 06-04-2011 12:31 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
Quote:

Unfortunately, the best chance we had to stop the "tribal politics" of the same 2 parties winning again and again in the UK which was a referendum on changing the voting system was crushed by a massive majority because of scaremongering by the big papers and parties.
What is interesting to note is how populism and fear are still great elements of the mass media in the west and in third-world dictatorships.

Quote:

After all, we happily accept the no-swearing rule on this and other forums, which is administered in a commonsense way. No one seems to mind if it's not gratuitous or abusive.
Ahhh, the social contract at work in an internet forum for drummers.

Quote:

Sitting and thinking - meditation - is thought of as indolence today but over the years I'm coming to believe that taking time out to gain perspective on ourselves, people and our place in the universe is really, really important.
Agreed, living for the moment seems like such a fitting philosophy for such people who take time to focus through meditation or other means (like sport (which can be "zen" for some people), yoga, tai chi, music (especially the deep improvised kind), fine visual art etc.)...very similar disciplines if you ask me...they suit different people - not everyone has an ear for music or the patience and body for yoga.

Quote:

is thought of as indolence today
That is a symptom of the herd mentality of the Western world (which is, ironically, - given our conformist consumerist lifestyles - day threatening individualism)...do not be dragged down.

BassDriver 06-06-2011 02:54 PM

Re: Swearing Fines
 
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...605-1fn7g.html

Here is a great article in the paper that I read today. Just about sums up the Australian experience of swearing.


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