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-   -   THE DRUM MICROPHONE / MICROPHONES THREAD (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749)

eddrummer05 07-23-2005 07:12 AM

THE DRUM MICROPHONE / MICROPHONES THREAD
 
hey guys wazzup,,im just wondering what mics you use in your drums or what mic you like just wanna share a little, right now a have set of CAD mics and sm57shure in my snare and planing to get all shure mics

what about you guys???????





god bless you...

Wegadrummer 07-23-2005 12:06 PM

Re: drum mics
 
i dont have drum-mic.. i must rent some when we play a gig.. but, i will buy some soon..
i gonna buy shure PG DMK6.. i have tryed them and i like them, thats it..! :)
http://www.sound1.no/images/product_...e_pg_dmk_6.jpg

eddrummer05 07-25-2005 01:45 AM

Re: drum mics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wegadrummer
i dont have drum-mic.. i must rent some when we play a gig.. but, i will buy some soon..
i gonna buy shure PG DMK6.. i have tryed them and i like them, thats it..! :)
http://www.sound1.no/images/product_...e_pg_dmk_6.jpg

that is a nice mic set man,shure is the best for me...

eddrummer05 07-25-2005 06:06 AM

Re: drum mics
 
!!!!man no body uses mics in here!!!!!???????

Mario Vincent 07-25-2005 09:00 AM

Mics and a PowerBook
 
Hey, I've always had my own mics for amplification but I've just got a PowerBook and I want to record onto it... this is clearly not my field so any suggestions would be good... what do I need...

Thanks!

-Mario

mediocrefunkybeat 07-25-2005 11:46 AM

Re: drum mics
 
Ok. Industry standard would be an AKG D112 on the bass. (I personally prefer the older D12, but that's not available any more) Sm57's are fine for almost everything else. I can't remember the overheads I used, I ought to go and look at my recording logs, but they were AKG condensors of some kid for sure.

I wouldn't go with an 'all Shure' setup personally. Because they make a few awesome microphones doesn't mean their bass drums mikes will be the best; for example.

Freddie Freeloader 07-25-2005 12:14 PM

Re: drum mics
 
i use the nady dmk7 mic kit and its really really worth the money. i do also use an sm-57 on my snare....
check the tune 'beaten into submission' on my soundclick page.... i recorded it at home with the same mic kit and people said it sounds great.... so you see for yourself.

finnhiggins 07-25-2005 09:28 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario Vincent
Hey, I've always had my own mics for amplification but I've just got a PowerBook and I want to record onto it... this is clearly not my field so any suggestions would be good... what do I need...

Thanks!

-Mario

Two options.

1) Use a mixer and a bunch of outboard gear and just present a stereo signal to the powerbook and record it. The bad option.

2) Buy a nice 8in/8out firewire audio unit (and possibly an external 8-channel preamp depending on what unit you buy), plug it into your powerbook and run something like DP, Logic, ProTools or Cubase to record each microphone as a separate audio track. Get a bunch of effect plugins and use them to add EQ, compression and reverb.

Voila, nice sounding drums either way. One way does it all in the physical realm with physical effects processors and the other way does it all in the digital realm. The reason the 2nd way is better in my opinion is that you can re-mix and tweak the individual sounds after recording and you don't have to commit to putting effects on a live take.

It's all pretty expensive though, I have to say. I'm the opposite of you, I have all the computer gear but lack the microphones and have to borrow them...

medeskisoul 07-25-2005 10:50 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario Vincent
Hey, I've always had my own mics for amplification but I've just got a PowerBook and I want to record onto it... this is clearly not my field so any suggestions would be good... what do I need...

Thanks!

-Mario

OK I don't know exactly you would need, But I wanted to commend you on using a Powerbook (I take it the MAC powerbook?) to record with. THEY RULE!!!! You can do anything with those (MAC powerbook.)

OK just a MAC person getting all giddy over someone else using MACs for music purposes. :)

michaeldangelo 07-25-2005 10:55 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
The easiest option is to get a pre-amp with as many channels as you need, and you can mix the mic's on the pre-amp and send that signal to the Powerbook as one stereo channel so you can mass mix the whole kit that way and add effects through whatever software you're using.

It must be noted that a high quality preamp is of the utmost importance when recording percussion (or anything else for that matter). Different preamps will change the sound of a microphone exponentially. Here are some preamps that I have found useful for recording Drums and Percussion. I have included their characteristic sound after each model.
  • Millennia Media HV3B -- Transparent and fast
  • Grace 101 or 802 -- Transparent and fast
  • Neve 1272 -- Very Colored
  • Telefunken V76 -- Very colored
  • Great River MP3V -- Colored or transparent
  • API - All models -- Colored
  • Manley -- Slightly Colored
You might want to start with an uncolored pre and try to get your sound with the microphone first. Then, if desired, you can change the pre to give the mic a different personality. Some micís such as the Sennheiser MKH series and the B&Kís are very transparent and accurate. These micís tend to work great with a colored pre.

Mario Vincent 07-25-2005 11:54 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Thanks for the advice, I'll post some recordings if i ever get it all to work... and yeah, medeskisoul, PowerBooks rule, Mac is def the way to go...

Thanks...

-Mario

finnhiggins 07-26-2005 02:32 AM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeldangelo
The easiest option is to get a pre-amp with as many channels as you need, and you can mix the mic's on the pre-amp and send that signal to the Powerbook as one stereo channel so you can mass mix the whole kit that way and add effects through whatever software you're using.

I think you'd need more than just a preamp outboard if you're looking for any serious quality with a large number of microphones. You'd really want a mixer with as many channels as you need for the microphones plus decent EQ on each channel - probably with at least a three-band with sweepable mids. Ideally you should route to compression as well, because you will want different settings on different microphones.

If you present a stereo mix to the computer there's very serious limits on what you can do to it afterwards. For example, it's quite nice to be able to give a bit of punch to a kick by putting in a highpass filter to take out the bottom octave (extra energy in the sound for no real audible effect) plus boosting the fundemental "Oomph" of the kick a bit. Then it's quite nice to notch out some of the boxy stuff around 800, plus boost the beater impact sound a little. But for a snare you'd want to approach things very differently, and on a stereo mix you don't have that ability to target individual EQ and compression settings to different drums. Reverb is usually alright on a stereo mix because you can restrict the frequency range so it doesn't muddy up your bassdrum too much, but unless you want to get seriously clever with multiband compression then you lose a lot of mixing flexibility by going to stereo before you've had an opportunity to do anything detailed.

Also by recording in stereo from 6-8 microphones you're making mixing decisions before you've been able to hear the performance, which can result in ruined takes because you realise the balance is just plain wrong and you can't fix it.

I'd really favour trying to find even a slightly lower quality way of getting all eight channels recorded separately into the computer rather than worrying about the quality of your preamp when you're going to kill a vast amount of your control by throwing away independent microphone channels before you even record. If there's a bit of noise or a less than perfect communication of the signal I'd suggest it is easier to clean that up with modern digital effects than it is to try to get a good drum sound from a muddy stereo mix.

michaeldangelo 07-26-2005 05:26 AM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
I don't think he wants to get that complicated. Hell, i get a great drum sound with one microphone, non preamped, running from the XLR cable to the computer. That's what I did my solo with. EQ'd some lows in on the software and I'm up and running.

A really good pre-amp will have some EQ settings on it, but pre-amps are intended to capture the real presence of the natural sound.

I know in the studio, all of the mics go to a mixing board, where everything can be edited, but it's still going to be one stereo signal in the end, UNLESS you do it separately, and that can be a nightmare when you get it into the software to put it together.

I know tons of professionals who just run only a pre-amp right into a laptop. They monitor the final mix with headphones with a soundcheck before initial recording. I don't know of any engineer who doesn't do that with an instrument with more than one microphone.

I think the days are gone when we try to capture the natural sound of instruments. Different pre-amps treat mic's differently for sure, but everything now a days is what you can do AFTER the signal is recorded. If you're recording in your house, I can see a reason for doing reverb and compression, but still.

The sound that you're looking for should be heard BEFORE you press the record button.

It's kind of like recording a symphony. No one in the world (except in the studio) would record each section individually. They usually use two mic's at the front of the stage into a preamp into a recording device, because wouldn't the symphony get it's balance and sound together anyway? And ironically, even though they record each section in the studio, most of the time, they hardly touch anything after recording. Recording each section brings out the clarity of each section, but balance and sound usually is great.

I think trying to get the true sound you're looking for going into the microphone is more challenging than putting all kinds of jarble into the signal after you're done with recording.

That's why there's 1 in 100 really great engineers out there.

Freddie Freeloader 07-26-2005 09:13 AM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
mike, you are right to a great extent, but that approach won't necessarily yield good results in all situations. there are many factors that contribute to the drum sound that range from the number of mics to the kind of room you are recording in. the mic>preamp>stereo singal into powerbook may work for simple demos, but if you want anything better, you'd have to do a little more.
if you are recording drums at home, take into consideration how cheap recording equipment is these days, and spend a little more and buy something that will really give you more flexibility. its just a question of a little more $$ thats all. for a half-decent drum sound, i'd say one mic on the bass, one on the snare and an overhead/room mic is all you need.
for as much as $300-$400 you can get a decent usb/firewire interface AND a good preamp (which needn't be necessary since many of these interfaces now have built-in preamps with phantom power too) and have all the flexibility you need. infact, i don't think its necessary to even invest in more than a little outboard gear since most recording (edit) SOFTWARE has some great effects and plugins that you can use.

Bernhard 07-26-2005 01:20 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Yes - I'm happy now!!!!!

- So good indeep posts here from everybody
- Mike, thanks for participating
- Freddie is also an expert
- Medeski loves Macs - so do I

Happy posting (in reality I know a little bit about drums and drummers - what not mean I can play - but for sure I know nothing about recording. But with a little powerbook and a preamp with 4 mics and then garageband I made quite good demos for my 6 man Jazzband - even better as the final result in the studio!!!!

Bernhard

medeskisoul 07-26-2005 01:51 PM

Re: Mics and a PowerBook
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernhard
Yes - I'm happy now!!!!!

- So good indeep posts here from everybody
- Mike, thanks for participating
- Freddie is also an expert
- Medeski loves Macs - so do I

Happy posting (in reality I know a little bit about drums and drummers - what not mean I can play - but for sure I know nothing about recording. But with a little powerbook and a preamp with 4 mics and then garageband I made quite good demos for my 6 man Jazzband - even better as the final result in the studio!!!!

Bernhard

I DO LOVE MACs!!!!! Garage Band, Audacity, Pro- Tools and many more. With a few simple plug-ins and some pre-outs (right term?) and a friend who helps design MAC software, the possibilities are endless.

Current project with a MAC: taking an old MAC SE/ G4 lap top/ Nintendo keyboard and making a sampler/ trigger module. I need one more part and hopefully it will be finished. It has taken months of planning and procrastination to get this far. Let's see how long it takes me to finish it?

Brent W 07-28-2005 05:16 AM

Snare Drum Mics
 
Recently I have been doing a lot of recording work at home. I run ProTools with a Digi001 unit. I have all the gear required to get good sound (reverb units, compressors, high quality pre-amps, mics), you name it. I have a large assortment of mics and the drum tracks sound fantastic...with one small exception. The snare drum! Which obviously is one of the most crucial sounds of a recording. For the majority of recording work I use a 13x5.5 Premier Artist Birch snare, which is a beautiful sounding snare. It has awesome crack and is very dynamically sensitive. I have tried about 10 different mics (Shure SM57, SM58, an Avlex mic specifically designed for snares, shot gun mic, and many different mics from drum kit mic package) and nothing is really measuring up to the recorded snare sound I desire. It seems as if my overhead condensors do most of the work as far as capturing the sound goes. I mean the tone of the snare drum is exactly the way it sounds when I'm playing on my on, which I like. But the snare mics I've used just haven't given the depth, warmth, and dynamic sensitivity I want. In other words, rim clicks and ghost notes are lost sometimes in the mix and rim shots always seem to clip out (and I am not a loud/hard player by any means). I have tried correcting this with condensors and preamps and equalizers...and nothing has solved the problem. I have also tried double, and even triple, micing the snare. But still nothing is really working for me.

Any help or suggestions on a suitable snare mic (or mics) would be great.

Thanks in advanced,
-Brent

aahznightsky 07-28-2005 05:48 AM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
if the shure isn't working, i think it may be you're placement and/or compression, etc you're using in recording, stuff like that

eddrummer05 07-28-2005 06:04 AM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
hey man i have a dvd where carter beauford its recording and he is using SM57 on snare and toms,, i have one and it works very good,i guess you have to equalize it to record...



god bless you...

Brent W 07-28-2005 07:48 AM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
I use equalization quite a bit. A 1.4 frequency tweak does the trick for most snares. But again, its not so much the tone and timbre of the drum. Most mics I have used on it do the snare justice in those departments. It is the dynamic response of the mics and the warmth factor. I was actually messing around with an Avlex mic a little while ago (which has similar specs to a 58) and with compression tweaks and mid range equalization tweaks. It is sounding a lot nicer. The mic itself is holding up well with the snare. I can actually here the articulation of the drum very clearly, and I managed to warm up the sound quite a bit with a vintage tube warmer plug in.

As far as placement, I am currently double micing the snare (batter and resonant side). Both mics are angled down towards the head and are about an inch away from the rims and about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the batter head.

I think a lot of it is just really trying new things, I am recording a lot of different music compared to what I have in the past, so it has forced me to contemplate different things and has made me have different desires and expectations out of the snare sound.

Any more suggestions on mics? And anyone have any better methods of mic placement?

Thanks for your input so far, very much appreciated.
-Brent

finnhiggins 07-29-2005 08:16 AM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent W
As far as placement, I am currently double micing the snare (batter and resonant side). Both mics are angled down towards the head and are about an inch away from the rims and about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the batter head.

I know this might sound like I'm being patronising, but you are putting one of those microphones out of phase with the other, right?

Stu_Strib 07-29-2005 02:36 PM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
I use an SM-57 on the snare live. The thing is a beast. I accidentally whack it now and then and it never misses a beat.

For recording, the last time, the engineer guy added another 57 with reversed phase to the snare side. Then in pro-tools, since it was its own track, I could mix the amount of snare buzz I wanted in. It was really cool, in that with two mics, I was able to use one snare drum for about 20 tracks, but make it sound different.

Stu

Brent W 07-29-2005 05:31 PM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by finnhiggins
I know this might sound like I'm being patronising, but you are putting one of those microphones out of phase with the other, right?

Yes sir.

I have a question, seeing as the consensus is that the SM57s are the best for snares, does anyone know if they changed their design? The two that I have are probably more than 10 years old, but I was under the impression that they have not altered the design. Does the age of a microphone actually take an effect on anything? I checked the element and the electronics of the microphone and everything seems in tact.

Thanks again for your input, I am going to try to rent a brand new 57 to try it out against my old one.

-Brent

Superlow 07-29-2005 07:52 PM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
SM 57 is the standard tool for micing snares, however there are some killer AKG's out there. We played around with them on some of the tracks on our record. I spoke with an enigineer who recommends a 57 on top and a condenser mic on the bottom. I am no expert at recording, but I have work with some very talented individuals who are.

Stevis 07-30-2005 10:55 PM

Re: Snare Drum Mics
 
I agree with everyone, An SM-57 is an awsome mic, very high quality. I think to get that sound you'll have to play with the compression and Equalization frequencies.

Chilli 08-03-2005 06:54 PM

Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Me and my band are going to start to record in my house so we are buying all the gear. Does anyone know about good drum Mics that are not to expensive? What about a good mixer and a Sound Card? I have money to spend in it but not that much. I was offered a Yamaha 16 channel Mixer for 400 $US, is that any good?

Stevis 08-03-2005 10:16 PM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
.
What's your Budget?
.

finnhiggins 08-03-2005 10:19 PM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilli
Me and my band are going to start to record in my house so we are buying all the gear. Does anyone know about good drum Mics that are not to expensive? What about a good mixer and a Sound Card? I have money to spend in it but not that much. I was offered a Yamaha 16 channel Mixer for 400 $US, is that any good?

If you want multi-channel audio in for a PC you can't go far wrong with something like an M-Audio Delta 1010 or 1010LT (depending on what you're plugging in). If you just want to use a mixer to go down to a stereo pair and record in stereo you could get away with something like an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, but you won't get the same results.

I'm not really up on used prices of mixers in the US, but if you're just looking for a home recording setup I don't think you'll need a sixteen channel mixer - that is, assuming you want to do overdubbed takes. If you want to present the whole band then you'll either need to use a mixer to make sub-mixes and send it to the sound card as a reduced set of channels or you'll need two sound cards synched via word clock or SPDIF. If you do that you'll need to get seriously into the specifics of what's in your computer in order to make sure you have enough bandwidth available on the PCI bus for 16+ channels of digital audio at any given time.

What sound card you get dictates what you need in front for best results - for example, the Delta 1010 accepts standard jack connections but has no pre-amp, which means you need a dedicated 8-channel pre-amp or mixer in front of it to supply line-level sound. The 1010LT has two balanced inputs and six RCA inputs, and the balanced ones can be switched to Mic level using a jumper on the card - not very convenient as it requires taking your computer to pieces. So you'd need a configuration there that can send balanced where available (preferably at line level with a good pre-amp on the front again) or RCA when not (and use good quality RCA cabling, not flimsy ones that came with a Discman or something).

Try to work out exactly what your budget is, then try to buy pretty balanced stuff across your entire rig. There's no point in having $2,000 A/D convertor rack mount units if you are going to be using budget microphones, and likewise there's not a lot of point buying an amazing pre-amp if your sound card only accepts unbalanced RCA connections.

rendezvous_drummer 08-04-2005 12:59 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Eurorack mixers are awesome, my band uses one and it hasnt done us wrong. had it for a year and a half. euroracks are the way to go.

Stevis 08-04-2005 04:56 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Well depending on your budget, I'm going to assume it's somewhere around my G.A.S. recording setup. It's around $1000.00.

Mixer - Behringer Eurorack UB2442FX-PRO Mixer - $300
Ebay - around $250

PCI Interface - M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI Interface - $180
-or-
PCI Interface - M-Audio Delta 1010LT PCI Digital Audio System - $200

Mics - Shure PG 6-Piece Drum Microphone Package - $400
Ebay - Also around $250
and a shure SM-57 isn't bad to have laying around - $90

plus money for cables and connection accesories.

Sums it all up to between $770 to around $1000 depending on your choices.

Chilli 08-04-2005 06:52 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
The thing is that I have a 5 toms, 1 snare, 2 bassdrums, 7cymbals set, and I would really like to be able to work ass much of them as a can into seperate channels. Thats without counting my 7 electric pads...

Stevis 08-05-2005 02:40 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Well, with mics, for your toms you can double up with mics if you get a pack.

Edward 08-12-2005 02:07 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilli
Me and my band are going to start to record in my house so we are buying all the gear. Does anyone know about good drum Mics that are not to expensive? What about a good mixer and a Sound Card? I have money to spend in it but not that much. I was offered a Yamaha 16 channel Mixer for 400 $US, is that any good?

if you let the store samash sponsor u...they'll give you $3000 in equipment a year!

Stevis 08-12-2005 02:49 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward
if you let the store samash sponsor u...they'll give you $3000 in equipment a year!

that would be awsome! How would someone get a sponsorship there?

Edward 08-12-2005 03:19 AM

Re: Mics, Mixer and Sound Card!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevis
that would be awsome! How would someone get a sponsorship there?

call 1-800-4-sam-ash

NUTHA JASON 09-06-2005 06:54 PM

overhead cymbal mics
 
i'm looking for overhead cymbal mics. No idle opinions please, i want responses from people who own or have used them extensively. i own an akg c1000s but i want something better. sometyhing that will rest in a cradle, perhaps two, one for each side of my kit.

thanks

j

jamndrummer 09-06-2005 07:13 PM

Re: overhead cymbal mics
 
Well, you didnt say what kind of money you had available to spend...but if that is not a issue. you might research and purchase Shure SM81's

drumofo 09-29-2005 12:47 AM

Samson 7 Piece drum mics and Presonus Firepod
 
Money is an issue so i found these products which i can afford. So are these product any good for drums? Suggestions?

Anduin 10-05-2005 04:55 PM

Re: overhead cymbal mics
 
The Rode NT5s are pretty good.

http://rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT5

onemat 10-05-2005 05:22 PM

Re: overhead cymbal mics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamndrummer
Well, you didnt say what kind of money you had available to spend...but if that is not a issue. you might research and purchase Shure SM81's

The SM81 Condensor mike has been widely copied. I've got one of those cheap Superlux Chinese made mike sets. The overheads look and SOUND like the Shure SM81s.


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