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Mr. Helm 12-23-2010 06:07 AM

Weather cast upon...
 
I've just finished reading the book "FIELD NOTES from a CATASTROPHE", brilliantly witten by journalist Elizabeth Kolbert. The tittle is alarming in itself, and the series of reports she has made around the world show why: there's no doubt about the current consequences of global warming. I recommend it for anyone who's interested in finding out deeper information concerning the theme. Here are its last words:

last paragraph: "(...) Ice core records also show that we are steadily drawing closer to the temperature peaks of the last interglacial, when sea levels were some fifteen feet higher than they are today. Just a few degress more and the earth will be hotter than it has been at any time since our species evolved. The feedbacks that have been identified in the climate system - the ice-albedo feedback, the water vapor feedback, the feedback between temperatures and carbon storage in the permafrost - take small changes to the system and amplify them into much larger forces. Perhaps the most unpredictable feedback of all is the human one. With six billion people on the planet, the risks are everywhere apparent. A disruption in the moonsoon patterns, a shift in ocean currents, a major drought - any one of these could easily produce streams of refugees numbering in the millions. As the effects of global warming become more and more difficult to ignore, will we react by finally fashioning a global response? Or will we retreat into ever narrower and more destructive forms of self-interest? It may seem impossible to imagine that a technologically advanced society could choose, in essence, to destroy itself, but that is what we are now in the process of doing."

That would be harsh enough, was it not by the contents of one of the series of stories she has written for The New Yorker Magazine that is not part of the book. It's about the "ice core reports" mentioned, is called "Ice Memory" and can be read from this link: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200.../020107fa_FACT.

In essence, it is pointed out that the heating process is a natural ocurrence, which we are but accelerating.

The consequences of all those facts are already impending upon us, as with sudden climate shifts and unprecedented metereological events such as tornados and hurricanes down here in Brazil, for instance.

How it will end? No one can say, exactly. Neither if anything drastic will affect us more than we are currently being affected.

But then this is just to call your attention for the facts that do show how changes are already taking place.

Beware is being aware, and this call is just a tentative effort to help out in terms of awareness.

Call it a Christmas gift!

Bo Eder 12-23-2010 06:48 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Mother Earth will kill us off this planet one way or another. She did it to the dinosaurs, and with all the disease, famine, and other natural disasters, she'll do it again. Global warming is just one of them, made all the more political because humans think they can stop it.

nhzoso 12-23-2010 01:54 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 779588)
Mother Earth will kill us off this planet one way or another. She did it to the dinosaurs, and with all the disease, famine, and other natural disasters, she'll do it again. Global warming is just one of them, made all the more political because humans think they can stop it.

+1... Earth has been hot before and it's been cold before and nothing we say or do will stop it.. It's a cycle we know little about...Plus I drive a 4 cyl ford focus so I feel good about myself : ), Cannot wait to be able to afford a Prius so I can start driving with my nose in the air...LOL

GRUNTERSDAD 12-23-2010 03:02 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Then find a spot to get rid of the glut of batteries these cars will use. A lead filled, acid filled land fill.

Pollyanna 12-23-2010 03:40 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
It's bothered me that climate scientists - the people who know more about this than any - see cause for concern. I'm more inclined to believe them than politicians, just as I take the advice of top musicians when it comes to music more than than, say, plumbers ... no offence to plumbers, I'd ask them about hot water systems before I'd ask a muso :)

But I'm also hearing stuff about how we're supposed to be entering an ice age so, in that case, maybe a little warming is a good idea? I only know pretty simple data analysis methods and bits and pieces of other stuff, so I have to take the word of people who know more than I do.

I try to minimise my consumption to do my bit, for what it's worth, which isn't much.

Big Foot 12-23-2010 04:09 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
want to help save the planet? RIDE YOUR BIKE to where you need to be.

Crazy8s 12-23-2010 10:08 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
At any given time, humanity is threatened by any one of several dozen or so potentially world-ending scenarios.

All we can do is enjoy our time spent here and love one another. While we will all shed our skins eventually, we live forever...for that is how long it takes to learn who we are as spirits. It takes an eternity to know that which is infinite, and we are given all the time in the universe to figure it out.

Peace.

Mr. Helm 12-23-2010 11:44 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
[quote=
But I'm also hearing stuff about how we're supposed to be entering an ice age so, in that case, maybe a little warming is a good idea? I only know pretty simple data analysis methods and bits and pieces of other stuff, so I have to take the word of people who know more than I do.
[/QUOTE]

Ice ages are usually (have always been) preceded ny warming. It has to do with the balance caused by underwater currents. A good source is Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth".

Mr. Helm 12-23-2010 11:46 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy8s (Post 779770)
At any given time, humanity is threatened by any one of several dozen or so potentially world-ending scenarios.

All we can do is enjoy our time spent here and love one another. While we will all shed our skins eventually, we live forever...for that is how long it takes to learn who we are as spirits. It takes an eternity to know that which is infinite, and we are given all the time in the universe to figure it out.

Peace.

That is so indeed! But I guess it would help our evolution once we managed to live in perfect harmony with the environment that ultimately sustains us as embodied spirits. Just an impression...

Pollyanna 12-24-2010 01:46 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Helm (Post 779803)
That is so indeed! But I guess it would help our evolution once we managed to live in perfect harmony with the environment that ultimately sustains us as embodied spirits. Just an impression...

I don't think it's possible with 6 billion people (and rising fast), all aspiring to have a house, car, a range of electronic goods, nice clothes etc. Something's got to give. I do feel that, ethically, living well includes being mindful of what we consume and the non-human lives / habitats that have been lost so we can have our goodies.

This whole thing feels like being in a massive ocean liner with a turning circle of 10kms and watching it heading towards an iceberg that's 2 kms away ... most of us seem to take a similar fatalistic view as the band that played on while the Titanic sank. Might as well go down swinging ...

Thaard 12-24-2010 01:51 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Let's move to Mars!

It's been mighty cold here in Norway, but I don't think it's because of the climate changes.

Pocket-full-of-gold 12-24-2010 01:53 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Foot (Post 779682)
want to help save the planet? RIDE YOUR BIKE to where you need to be.

That 26" bass drum must be a challenge? :-)

Big Foot 12-24-2010 02:13 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold (Post 779850)
That 26" bass drum must be a challenge? :-)

bring on the 28"!! and the hardware!

specgrade 12-24-2010 10:19 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
It's pretty arrogant of us to think that WE are killing the planet. She'll die one way or another. Just a fact. Glad I won't be around to see it :-)

GRUNTERSDAD 12-24-2010 10:55 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Helm (Post 779802)
Ice ages are usually (have always been) preceded ny warming. It has to do with the balance caused by underwater currents. A good source is Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth".

Is this the same Al Gore who invented the internet. Please. This clown is making millions from a panicky public.

Pollyanna 12-25-2010 01:30 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by specgrade (Post 780198)
It's pretty arrogant of us to think that WE are killing the planet. She'll die one way or another. Just a fact. Glad I won't be around to see it :-)

Well, we've caused mass extinctions, put a whopping great hole in the ozone layer (which means it's dangerous to spend a lot of time in the sun in Oz), entirely dominated most land masses, fished out areas of the sea, and we have enough nukes to turn the planet into a wasteland for thousands of years. Even then the planet would remain alive ... I expect there'd still be lots microbes and lower order creatures. The outlook would be a tad less rosy from our end.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 780211)
Is this the same Al Gore who invented the internet. Please. This clown is making millions from a panicky public.

GD, all Al did was turn hard science into popular science to raise public awareness. The vast majority of scientists who work in related areas and who aren't aligned to political think tanks believe there's a major problem. Like I said, I'll listen to them on the subject before I listen to anyone else, especially politicos.

Bo Eder 12-25-2010 02:00 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Well, the planet won't die. She'll keep going. Every few millenia or so a new species will rise to the be the dominant lifeform. We weren't the first. Probably won't be the last, either.

Mr. Helm 12-26-2010 05:30 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaard (Post 779848)
Let's move to Mars!

It's been mighty cold here in Norway, but I don't think it's because of the climate changes.

The Mars move has been tried before. Seems it did not work. Some people say a few of us still go there!

Big Foot 12-26-2010 05:35 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Well whether or not, we all get killed off or the earth implodes, I think we all have to agree (if you're paying attention) that both land, sea and air are getting pretty polluted. It wouldn't hurt live cleaner and less consuming life styles.

Mr. Helm 12-27-2010 08:44 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 780211)
Is this the same Al Gore who invented the internet. Please. This clown is making millions from a panicky public.

Sorry, my dear friend, but you missed me on both of the above quoted...

Mr. Helm 12-27-2010 08:45 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Foot (Post 780630)
Well whether or not, we all get killed off or the earth implodes, I think we all have to agree (if you're paying attention) that both land, sea and air are getting pretty polluted. It wouldn't hurt live cleaner and less consuming life styles.

No it won't hurt us, although it certainly might hurt a wealth of healthy pockets!

Mr. Helm 12-27-2010 08:49 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaard (Post 779848)
Let's move to Mars!

It's been mighty cold here in Norway, but I don't think it's because of the climate changes.

Some people say that the ancient have already been to Mars.
Others say that some of us still can go there, in a flash.
But it does seem quite more inhospitable than these here parts.
It is indeed very cold up there in Norway, though some of its glaciers are diminishing by the hour, is it not so?

Mr. Helm 12-27-2010 08:52 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 779846)
I don't think it's possible with 6 billion people (and rising fast), all aspiring to have a house, car, a range of electronic goods, nice clothes etc. Something's got to give. I do feel that, ethically, living well includes being mindful of what we consume and the non-human lives / habitats that have been lost so we can have our goodies.

This whole thing feels like being in a massive ocean liner with a turning circle of 10kms and watching it heading towards an iceberg that's 2 kms away ... most of us seem to take a similar fatalistic view as the band that played on while the Titanic sank. Might as well go down swinging ...

Pockets will have to be hurt and tables are to be turned, since we're not the band aboard the giant cruiser who could do nothing to stop the end of the disaster!

Mr. Helm 12-27-2010 08:56 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 780244)
Well, the planet won't die. She'll keep going. Every few millenia or so a new species will rise to the be the dominant lifeform. We weren't the first. Probably won't be the last, either.

This we know, but we could be here forever, had we done the right things!

nhzoso 12-27-2010 10:20 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Helm (Post 780923)
This we know, but we could be here forever, had we done the right things!


I wonder if there was a neanderthal man right at the end with the same thoughts, just before a homo sapien crushed his skull with a rock?

Sounds like something Jack Handey would say : )

zambizzi 12-27-2010 10:34 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
"Unfortunately, the prophets of climate doom violate this idea. No matter what happens, it always confirms their basic premise that the world is getting hotter. The weather turns cold and wet? It's global warming, they say. Weather turns hot? Global warming. No change? Global warming. More hurricanes? Global warming. No hurricanes? You guessed it."

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...rm-ongers.aspx

Mr. Helm 12-28-2010 06:54 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 781171)
"Unfortunately, the prophets of climate doom violate this idea. No matter what happens, it always confirms their basic premise that the world is getting hotter. The weather turns cold and wet? It's global warming, they say. Weather turns hot? Global warming. No change? Global warming. More hurricanes? Global warming. No hurricanes? You guessed it."

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...rm-ongers.aspx

I don't know about any such prophets, but the undeniable fact is that the globe is getting warmer. It has happened before. It will happen again. The action of our kind only contribute to make it hotter than before, this time. The effects can be misleading, and the quote tries to mislead and perhaps invalidate some of what goes on within this broader view, by just narrowing it down into something such as maniac confusion.

Mr. Helm 12-28-2010 06:58 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 781166)
I wonder if there was a neanderthal man right at the end with the same thoughts, just before a homo sapien crushed his skull with a rock?

Sounds like something Jack Handey would say : )

There seems to be new evidence that we have breeded with the neanderthal!
There is also evidence that our kind has been around for way more longer than known or accepted by history, but that's another story...

zambizzi 12-28-2010 05:38 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Helm (Post 781361)
I don't know about any such prophets, but the undeniable fact is that the globe is getting warmer. It has happened before. It will happen again. The action of our kind only contribute to make it hotter than before, this time. The effects can be misleading, and the quote tries to mislead and perhaps invalidate some of what goes on within this broader view, by just narrowing it down into something such as maniac confusion.

Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998. Looking back in history, a trend emerges. Europe went through a warming phase in the middle-ages which fertilized vast amounts of new farmland, thus causing the population to grow and thrive. Prior to that, there had been a sort of mini "ice age", preventing migration onto the continent.

Honestly, this global warming religion is out of control. What environmental zealots prefer is a global socialist society, with a handful of people in charge. It's no conspiracy, it's the actions of western states that tell the story. All states and their fascist benefactors are clamoring at the opportunity to suck the lifeblood out of productive people, who are actually contributing to the welfare of society.

Climategate showed the world the ugly truth - that global warming "science" is nothing more than botched guesswork thrown together by gov't-sponsored scientists, intentionally skewed to favor the viewpoint of the state. The ends would be global climate regulation that would stifle and destroy both developed and developing economies. Anything for more power and control.

Pollyanna 12-28-2010 06:51 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 781471)
Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998.

The science is exactly the opposite to what you say - the top 11 warmest years on record have all been in the last 13 years -
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1213101419.htm

I find scientists more credible rather than the commentariat. The fact that journos consistently confuse climate and weather doesn't help.

zambizzi 12-29-2010 10:46 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 781502)
The science is exactly the opposite to what you say - the top 11 warmest years on record have all been in the last 13 years -
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1213101419.htm

I find scientists more credible rather than the commentariat. The fact that journos consistently confuse climate and weather doesn't help.

I guess it depends on which "scientists" you ask and which data you refer to, and how far back your data goes. Clearly the "scientists" of the Climategate scandal aren't any more trustworthy than your average government liar or journalist (not to be redundant.)

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....scientists-say
"As the U.S. Senate prepares to consider enormously expensive cap-and-trade legislation, supposedly aimed at curbing alleged global warming caused by man-made emissions, scientists and policy makers at a conference in Chicago heard from experts in various scientific fields challenging the crumbling assumptions that have provided the foundation for global-warming alarmism."

http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz19XDwlbR3
"The scientists’ analysis is based on the natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, which is contradictory to other scientists' belief that the North Pole will be free of ice by the summer of 2013. However, according to the US National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado, arctic sea ice has increased by more than 26 per cent, or 409,000 square miles, since 2007, reports the Washington Times."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D....aspx?id=68277
"Morano also notes that between 1940 and 1975, the earth's temperature cooled even though CO2 levels rose. And global warming alarmists, he notes, have failed to explain the lack of a correlation between rising CO2 and rising temperatures, a theory that Al Gore promotes in his movie An Inconvenient Truth."

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...8/s2554128.htm
"None of that is necessary according to Ian Plimer, a two-time Eureka prize winner who is Emeritus professor of earth science at Melbourne University and professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide.

He says human emissions of carbon dioxide do not create global warming; he claims there is no global warming at all because temperatures are actually dropping and that geology shows that climate change is part of the earth's natural cycle."

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/we...221-1945a.html
"The question is whether anthropogenic global warming is the exclusive or dominant fact that determines our climate, or whether Corbyn is also right to insist on the role of the Sun. Is it possible that everything we do is dwarfed by the moods of the star that gives life to the world? The Sun is incomparably vaster and more powerful than any work of man. We are forged from a few clods of solar dust. The Sun powers every plant and form of life, and one day the Sun will turn into a red giant and engulf us all. Then it will burn out. Then it will get very nippy indeed."

...and so on, and so forth. I've read literally hundreds of articles over the years like this, clearly indicating that no science has been settled on the issue. It's clear that most of the rhetoric used by the "Anthropomorphic Climate Change" crowd is BS, not back by any hard science, but rather mired in intentionally botched data to favor their view, and that of the state...for obvious reasons.

It's more likely that climate and weather patterns are based on solar activity. We appear to be in a "Maunder Minimum" where when the sun grows quiet, the earth grows cold.

Big Foot 12-29-2010 11:06 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Helm (Post 780917)
No it won't hurt us, although it certainly might hurt a wealth of healthy pockets!

Not really, new cleaner technologies, recycled products, cleaner sources of energy etc. have been creating plenty of new jobs. Kinda like when we all thought we'd lose our jobs to the computer only to find a tech job or spin-off jobs.

Pollyanna 12-30-2010 01:35 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 782006)
I guess it depends on which "scientists" you ask and which data you refer to, and how far back your data goes. Clearly the "scientists" of the Climategate scandal aren't any more trustworthy than your average government liar or journalist (not to be redundant.)

Climategate was a lifeline for climate change skeptics. In politics one bad apple spoils the barrel, in science one bad apple is just one bad apple. Guess which area gets the media's attention?

Unlike you, I am not so politically-inclined and don't care for your tactic of using disparaging inverted commas or those little insults - "zealots", "alarmists" etc. That's what tabloids do and, in my experience, when people use those tactics they are trying to shut down their "opponents".

The "scientists" you refer to are actually scientists. Let's not pretend that they haven't done the hard yards -hard yards of study that neither of us have done. The vast majority of scientists believe there are issues re: AGW. If you look for reasons not to believe them, you will always find them. So it goes.

The simple fact is that the earth is getting warmer and carbon dioxide traps heat and we are greatly increasing its concentration in the atmosphere.

The findings of 96% of climatologists point to human activity having an impact on the earth's temperature. Even amongst the biggest doubters - geologists and meteorologists - almost half of them think humans affect climate.

If I want to know about the earth's crust or the weather (not to be confused with climate) I'll ask a geologist or meteorologist. If I want to know about climate, then I'll ask a climatologist. I'm not going to ask a drummer about playing the harp either.

Mr. Helm 12-30-2010 07:51 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 781471)
Everything I have read (and all of the data collected) seems to point to the earth actually *cooling*, since roughly 1998. Looking back in history, a trend emerges. Europe went through a warming phase in the middle-ages which fertilized vast amounts of new farmland, thus causing the population to grow and thrive. Prior to that, there had been a sort of mini "ice age", preventing migration onto the continent.

Honestly, this global warming religion is out of control. What environmental zealots prefer is a global socialist society, with a handful of people in charge. It's no conspiracy, it's the actions of western states that tell the story. All states and their fascist benefactors are clamoring at the opportunity to suck the lifeblood out of productive people, who are actually contributing to the welfare of society.

Climategate showed the world the ugly truth - that global warming "science" is nothing more than botched guesswork thrown together by gov't-sponsored scientists, intentionally skewed to favor the viewpoint of the state. The ends would be global climate regulation that would stifle and destroy both developed and developing economies. Anything for more power and control.

So it does seem that you are a true specialist, a scientist, a climatologist, one who has heard all about the subject and has examined all of data so far collected.
Well, maybe the data collected by the scientists of the Ice Core project has escaped your perception.
First off, NO ONE is saying that the cooling of the planet will make it hotter and boil our brains off (as it will and has done, in certains spots of the globe, btw), only that the consequences of such cooling may cause a lot of localized troubles, exactly as it is happening right now.
There was no such thing as "climegate" if you're indeed well aware about the complete development of the facts concerned, which name was yet another fabrication of the same kind of people you claim to be ushering us into being controled by fear.
You seem to know very well about the hidden objectives of such birds of prey, but then why is it so that all countries are now starting to develop a clear trend towards the use of cleaner energy sources, other than the oil/charcoal/CO2 based ones?
Perhaps you should start to ask yourself those kinds of questions before pointing the right finger in the wrong direction, that is, the powers that be have been using and abusing the use of expensive and dirty sources of energy when there always have been much cheaper and cleaner ones.
The way you seem to see it, the only way for any country to become developed is to adopt a model that has been proven itself as hazardous to the health of the planet and its inhabitants, such as you and myself.
I urge you to get your facts straight before keeping up with this trend of thought, and you can easily start to do so by reading Elizabeth Kolbert's book and the Ice Memory article.

wy yung 12-30-2010 08:03 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Space is but 20 miles above our heads and it is a hostile place. Earth has always been riding a delicate wave just this side of destruction by the radioactivity and heat generated by the sun.

Funnily enough I recently bought about 60 TV specials about space and the universe. The biggest danger to our immediate existence, if these people are to be believed, is meteors crashing into Earth.

Following this is the damage being done to the rather precious 20 miles of safety and protection guarded by the ozone layer. Which according to the Climate change council, or whatever its called, is very real. (The report can be read online.)

But don't worry too much because Earth's destruction is assured. The sun, just like all suns will eventually go supernova and extend out past the Earth and swallow it up.

Basically, we're doomed.

paistemage 01-13-2011 07:36 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
No offense to anyone.

People that can't enter polite debate without resorting to under handed comments, tend to search for an argument.

Trying to argue this will get you nowhere. Some say Scientists are wrong, some say you asked the wrong scientists, some try to turn everything political.

I prefer facts, not speculation.

0neyellowdrum 01-14-2011 06:31 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

GD, all Al did was turn hard science into popular science to raise public awareness. The vast majority of scientists who work in related areas and who aren't aligned to political think tanks believe there's a major problem. Like I said, I'll listen to them on the subject before I listen to anyone else, especially politicos.
For a little balance to this conversation:
My father, a retired structural engineer whose specialty was power, (he designed power plants of all kinds but nuclear was his specialty. He was used as an expert by the Atomic Energy Commission and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission testifying before these commissions as they were setting up the regulations for the power industry. His sub-specialty was making these plants safer and cleaner. Since I am not a scientist and, often, don't know who to trust in the public debate over these issues, I refer to my Dad whom I trust greatly. Here is a shorthand version of a conversation with my dad;
Dad, when I bought my diesel pickup in 2001 the price of diesel was almost a dollar under the cost of reg. unleaded gas. Now it is 2003 and the cost of diesel is almost a dollar more than the cost of reg. unleaded. It takes more refining to get gas from oil than it does to get diesel. Why is diesel more expensive?
His reply: Well Steve, contrary to popular belief, the earth is getting cooler. The winters are getting longer and colder. In refining, first there is heating oil, refine some more you get diesel, refine some more you get gasoline. the refinery's are at capacity. We are importing record amounts of ready made gasoline because we cannot refine enough ourselves. Since the need for heating oil has increased and the need for gasoline has not diminished and we are still importing ready made, the refining capacity for diesel has diminished. The laws of supply and demand are in play. There is less supply of diesel so the price has increased.
I suggest that "An Inconvenient Truth" (whose science has been rebuked by many who helped construct) was a political shot at 'Big Oil'. Follow the money that has been gifted to Big Al and his car company. Outside the US by the way.
When the world gets too confusing, we all try to find someone to trust for truth and reason. I look to my dad.

Pollyanna 01-14-2011 09:23 AM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0neyellowdrum (Post 788658)
... My father, a retired structural engineer whose specialty was power,

... His reply: Well Steve, contrary to popular belief, the earth is getting cooler. The winters are getting longer and colder.

Climatologists say the earth is getting warmer and the "cooling" is simply weather fluctuations within the broader trends of climate:

http://www.aussmc.org/documents/wait...al-cooling.pdf

Not knocking your dad. If I wanted to know about structural engineering I'd listen to him before I'd listen to a climatologist.

0neyellowdrum 01-14-2011 04:19 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 788701)
Climatologists say the earth is getting warmer and the "cooling" is simply weather fluctuations within the broader trends of climate:

http://www.aussmc.org/documents/wait...al-cooling.pdf

Not knocking your dad. If I wanted to know about structural engineering I'd listen to him before I'd listen to a climatologist.

The only climatologist that ever got it right was george carlin- ' forcast for tonight...dark continuing to widely scattered light in the morning.'

I get your point, Polly, however, only some climatologists say the earth is getting warmer, some say it is changing but not hanging their hat on warmer. Some jumped on the politic bandwagon for 15 min. of fame.
I am not a scientist so who of these climatologist's should I believe?

I know you are not knocking my dad and you don't know him at all.
My point is, when I cannot navigate all the crap in the science I look to someone who can.

jonescrusher 01-14-2011 08:15 PM

Re: Weather cast upon...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0neyellowdrum (Post 788782)

I get your point, Polly, however, only some climatologists say the earth is getting warmer, some say it is changing but not hanging their hat on warmer. Some jumped on the politic bandwagon for 15 min. of fame.
I am not a scientist so who of these climatologist's should I believe?

Remember that climate is observable over decades, not years. The trend in mean average global temps over the long term is clear - the globe is warming. There is still room for uncertainty as to what's caused this, or what will happen in the future.


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