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-   -   20" Kick Drum head port hole (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69795)

Goldsoundz 12-13-2010 04:05 PM

20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Is a 5.75" hole too large for a 20" kick drum front head? I bought one of those kits to cut out a hole and add a chrome ring around it for a nice finished look, but it's almost 6" in diameter, and my kick is 20".

bobdadruma 12-13-2010 04:37 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
For me it would be too large on a 20 inch bass.
I'm using a 4 inch on my 16x20 bass.
I use an Aquarian SK II batter and reso head pack.
Thats the size hole that comes cut in the head.
I don't put anything inside of the drum and I tune slightly tight.

It's all personal choice.
I would say experiment with an old head.
I don't like large ports on any of my bass drums.
I use a 3 inch on my 14x18 and a 5 inch on my 14x22 drums.
I have an 8x20 bass drum from a Rhythm Traveler kit and I stopped porting that drum because I like it best that way.
You have to try for yourself.
It depends on the drum, the heads, the style of play, the tuning, the desired sound, and response. There are many variables to consider.

alparrott 12-13-2010 04:43 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
It completely depends on the sound you're going for with your kick, and what head you're driving on the batter, and where you plan on positioning the hole, and what muffling (if any) you have in there...

A 5.75" head is a smidge under a third of the drum's diameter. If you were to put it dead center of the front head (i.e. directly in front of where your beater hits) your sound will change to almost pure attack, because the initial press of air will go straight out the exit without pausing to make any resonance (or very very little) in the shell or front head.

If you offset it (maybe 1-2 inches in from the edge at 4 o'clock) the initial press of air should still hit the front of the head, but it will still be a bit clickier and more attack than boom.

To put it in perspective, if you made the same proportion of hole on a 22", it'd be 6.325" across. On a 24", it'd be almost 7" across.

bobdadruma 12-13-2010 04:53 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
alparrott brings up a good point regarding the position of the port on the head.

Goldsoundz 12-13-2010 06:25 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott (Post 775687)
It completely depends on the sound you're going for with your kick, and what head you're driving on the batter, and where you plan on positioning the hole, and what muffling (if any) you have in there...

A 5.75" head is a smidge under a third of the drum's diameter. If you were to put it dead center of the front head (i.e. directly in front of where your beater hits) your sound will change to almost pure attack, because the initial press of air will go straight out the exit without pausing to make any resonance (or very very little) in the shell or front head.

If you offset it (maybe 1-2 inches in from the edge at 4 o'clock) the initial press of air should still hit the front of the head, but it will still be a bit clickier and more attack than boom.

To put it in perspective, if you made the same proportion of hole on a 22", it'd be 6.325" across. On a 24", it'd be almost 7" across.

Thanks, that's good info. I want a good solid, chunky thud when I record it, with minimal click. And I was planning on a 4 o'clock position for the hole.

Bo Eder 12-13-2010 06:53 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
1 Attachment(s)
I play a 20" bass drum and have a 5" hole at the 3 o'clock position.

You'll forgive me, but I'm really proud of this groove - this is what it sounded like on one of my last recordings, and it's a great sound. I wasn't beating it up, I was literally dancing on the pedal and love this bass drum sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SIKDJVLUXo

The batter head is a Remo PS3 and my mic is a Shure SM58 sticking just inside the hole. There is a small folded-up wool army blanket just on the bottom of the shell barely touching both heads. When I play out live in an un-mic'd situation, I put a full front head on with no muffling.

alparrott 12-13-2010 07:14 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Until Bo mentioned what he does for live play, I wasn't going to mention it.... but I've played a 16x20 for about 12 years now, and never put a hole in the front, despite the sound guys' insistence at gigs (in-joke there...) With the new Kickport getting rave reviews, I've been very tempted, but I still haven't heard a kick with a hole in the front head that I like as well as I like mine without.

I tune the batter (Evans EQ3) about 2 turns tighter than JAW until I get a thump with just a smidge of sustain and tone, tune the front head about 1/2 turn past JAW so that it just resonates, and the only muffling I use is a rolled-up T-shirt touching the batter head from about 4:30 to 7:30. It sounds great live, miked or unmiked, and when I record it with an ambient dynamic mic in the room, it sounds like a very brief subwoofer pulse with an attack on the front end of the note.

bobdadruma 12-13-2010 07:21 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
As you have read here, everyone finds their own way when it comes to tuning and porting a kick drum.
I suppose that you will have to do as we all have and find your happy place when it comes to you porting, (or not porting) your bass.

audiotech 12-13-2010 07:46 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
If it was me, I wouldn't port a 20" bass drum head, in fact I don't port any of my bass drum heads. With the proper tuning, heads and miking, I really don't have a reason to port my heads. I always hear comments like "so and so has their kicks ported" well that's so and so and if they feel that's the only way to get the sound They want, all's well and good. I always use a room microphone in both my home studio and commercial studios I work. I've been working as an engineer for many, many years and have established a certain way of doing things that I know will work with a limited amount of experimentation. It puts a smile on a lot of producers faces, lol. This is basically the way I mic my kits at my home studio without a bass drum port hole. There may be times when I mic the batter head of the bass drum for a bit more attack, but it's not very often.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0029-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0056-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0081-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0148-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0137-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...C_0104-1-1.jpg

Dennis

bobdadruma 12-13-2010 08:38 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Since a while back when I stopped porting the 8x20 Rhythm Traveler bass, I have been thinking of putting full resos on my other bass drums.
I have gotten used to keeping the beater off of the head when I don't want multiple bounces and I like it!
I played a ported bass head for about 30 years so I had to work into the non ported head thing slowly.
I also like the way my port-less bass sounds both live and with a mic in front of it.

Bo Eder 12-13-2010 09:21 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
For a really cool sound as well, you might want to try regular remo ambassadors both front and back on your bass drum with nothing in it. Check out Keith Carlock utilizing this sound, that's the coolest I've ever heard.

Goldsoundz 12-13-2010 09:34 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott (Post 775731)
Until Bo mentioned what he does for live play, I wasn't going to mention it.... but I've played a 16x20 for about 12 years now, and never put a hole in the front, despite the sound guys' insistence at gigs (in-joke there...) With the new Kickport getting rave reviews, I've been very tempted, but I still haven't heard a kick with a hole in the front head that I like as well as I like mine without.

I tune the batter (Evans EQ3) about 2 turns tighter than JAW until I get a thump with just a smidge of sustain and tone, tune the front head about 1/2 turn past JAW so that it just resonates, and the only muffling I use is a rolled-up T-shirt touching the batter head from about 4:30 to 7:30. It sounds great live, miked or unmiked, and when I record it with an ambient dynamic mic in the room, it sounds like a very brief subwoofer pulse with an attack on the front end of the note.

Interesting, great advice all! Sorry about he dumb question, but what's JAW?

bobdadruma 12-13-2010 09:41 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
"JAW" is an acronym for "Just Above Wrinkle".
The head it tensioned until it is just smooth with no wrinkles in the skin.
Then just a slight bit of tension is added to taste.

Not a dumb question at all.
There are no dumb questions.
If you don't know, Just ask!

alparrott is a tight tuner on his batter, as you can now see from his claim that he goes about two turns above JAW.
For further example, I only torque about 3/4 to 1 turn above JAW. I tune kind of medium/tight on my bass batter.

alparrott 12-14-2010 06:11 AM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdadruma (Post 775782)

alparrott is a tight tuner on his batter, as you can now see from his claim that he goes about two turns above JAW.
For further example, I only torque about 3/4 to 1 turn above JAW. I tune kind of medium/tight on my bass batter.

Ah, my bad, I don't know why I claimed two, I always count half-turns because I have one of these goofy old Ludwig does-everything tools. It's probably closer to one, or one-and-a-half. But I do often tune it a bit tighter, because it helps the drum sustain and cut through.

tank 05-22-2013 06:16 AM

Help ID Mic Mount In Post #9 by audiotech
 
1 Attachment(s)
I know this is an old thread.
Still, I'm hoping someone sees it and can help

In post #9 of this thread drummerworld member, audiotech posted some nice pics of a yamaha kit

One pic shows an Electro Voice re20 mic on a short boom mic stand at front of a Yamaha bass drum

Can anyone help identify the black mic mount holding the Electro Voice re20 kick mic in the picture

It wraps around the center on the mic

What might it be and where to get one to try?

I pm'ed audiotech but I'm sure he would see it.

Thanks.

Dan

lsits 05-22-2013 09:12 AM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 775720)
I play a 20" bass drum and have a 5" hole at the 3 o'clock position.

You'll forgive me, but I'm really proud of this groove - this is what it sounded like on one of my last recordings, and it's a great sound. I wasn't beating it up, I was literally dancing on the pedal and love this bass drum sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SIKDJVLUXo

The batter head is a Remo PS3 and my mic is a Shure SM58 sticking just inside the hole. There is a small folded-up wool army blanket just on the bottom of the shell barely touching both heads. When I play out live in an un-mic'd situation, I put a full front head on with no muffling.

Great vocals, Bo. Chicks dig a singing drummer.

audiotech 05-22-2013 10:01 AM

Re: Help ID Mic Mount In Post #9 by audiotech
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tank (Post 1142395)
I know this is an old thread.
Still, I'm hoping someone sees it and can help

In post #9 of this thread drummerworld member, audiotech posted some nice pics of a yamaha kit

One pic shows an Electro Voice re20 mic on a short boom mic stand at front of a Yamaha bass drum

Can anyone help identify the black mic mount holding the Electro Voice re20 kick mic in the picture

It wraps around the center on the mic

What might it be and where to get one to try?

I pm'ed audiotech but I'm sure he would see it.

Thanks.

Dan

That particular shock mount is made by Stedman for their model N90 microphones. I didn't like the regular Electrovoice shock mounts designed for the RE20, 27 because of being a little too bulky, so I hunted through some of the mounts I had here at home and found this a perfect fit. It is very effective. I order a couple from Stedman, this was quite a few years ago, and have been using them ever since. I really don't know if Stedman still exists, but that's where it came from.

Dennis

tank 05-22-2013 04:35 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Dennis

Thank you for posting the answer to my question. My search for a better mic mount for my re20 is under way. I'm now searching for a Stedman N90 mic mount to try. If anyone has a suggestion on where I might find one of these please let me know.

On a side note, I was wondering what mic pre amp if any, folks might be using with the re20 on a kick drum. We use a Mackie 1402 board and I was thinking of trying the Cloudlifter inline mic preamp for the re20 on my Ludwig 26" kick drum. I was thinking a little more gain for the re20 might be a good thing. Any comments, thoughts, ideas would be appreciated. And thanks again for your response Dennis. Much appreciated.

Thanks.
Dan

tank 05-23-2013 04:50 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
hi dennis,

if you are able would you consider selling one of your mic mounts to me for my re20?

was also wondering which brand of the heavy based kick mic stands you use and recommend? it seems there are many brands.

maybe some or all made by same company and distributed under several different names.

thanks

dan

audiotech 05-24-2013 05:45 AM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tank (Post 1142870)
hi dennis,

if you are able would you consider selling one of your mic mounts to me for my re20?

was also wondering which brand of the heavy based kick mic stands you use and recommend? it seems there are many brands.

maybe some or all made by same company and distributed under several different names.

thanks

dan

Sorry Dan, I have three of these mounts and I wish I would have gotten a couple more. The one mount I keep to use with my Stedman N90, I use one here at my home studio and one goes on the road with me. There's probably many others that will work well with the RE20 and I'm always experimenting with new ideas. If I find one, I'll let you know.

The particular stand in the photograph is made by Proline, the model number is MS112BK. I also use a very similar stand made by On Stage Stands, that model number is OSS MSA 7040B, it has a 16" boom. One other low stand/boom combo that I primarily use as a floor tom microphone stand is the On Stage Stands OSS MS 7311B. It's about twice the height of the 7040B.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0056-1.jpg

Dennis

drumming sort of person 04-27-2014 04:23 AM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by audiotech (Post 775737)
If it was me, I wouldn't port a 20" bass drum head, in fact I don't port any of my bass drum heads. With the proper tuning, heads and miking, I really don't have a reason to port my heads.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...DSC_0137-1.jpg



Is there anything dampening the resonant head in that bass drum? Does the mic pick up any sustaining ring from the head?

opentune 04-27-2014 04:35 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
hey DSOP, 'Audiotech' left the forum about a year ago, to my knowledge.

bermuda 04-27-2014 05:50 PM

Re: 20" Kick Drum head port hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alparrott (Post 775731)
Until Bo mentioned what he does for live play, I wasn't going to mention it.... but I've played a 16x20 for about 12 years now, and never put a hole in the front, despite the sound guys' insistence at gigs (in-joke there...) With the new Kickport getting rave reviews, I've been very tempted, but I still haven't heard a kick with a hole in the front head that I like as well as I like mine without.

I also don't port my 20" kicks. They sound and feel great without a hole, both acoustically and mic'd. I think their relatively small size contributes to a more controlled sound to begin with, so that internal miking isn't a default. And when I say relatively small, I mean 14, 15 and 16" deep. 18 or 20" deep on a 20" kick is particularly unnecessary in my experience, and in fact none of my 33 kick drums is 18" (or deeper) although from 22" up, most are ported. Depending what I need from a particular kick, the hole may be 5", 6", or larger.

IF I was going to put a hole in a 20" reso, I'd make it 5 or even 4", to preserve as much of the reso head's resonance and the pressure inside of the drum that contributes to the sound and playability.

Bermuda


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