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-   -   A funny state of the economy (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68895)

aydee 11-15-2010 07:59 PM

A funny state of the economy
 
Explained...in an ironic sort of way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k

...

larryace 11-15-2010 08:34 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
See it's videos like these that make me mad for taking my head out of the sand to watch them.

It has all the makings of a plot for an evil horror movie.

Fiery 11-15-2010 10:22 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
I know very little of how the US economy works, but those parts that I do know weren't represented correctly in this video. Namely, deflation doesn't mean just that "people can buy more things" and it is not generally a good thing. This makes me wary of the many other factual statements made in the video.

jer 11-15-2010 10:28 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
There is nothing humorous about this video. Keep calm and carry on.

zambizzi 11-15-2010 10:47 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiery (Post 766035)
I know very little of how the US economy works, but those parts that I do know weren't represented correctly in this video. Namely, deflation doesn't mean just that "people can buy more things" and it is not generally a good thing. This makes me wary of the many other factual statements made in the video.

Deflation is how the market corrects after a period of artificial inflation (i.e. money creation). "Printing" money distorts natural market activity and misallocates resources, creating artificial demand. This is how "bubbles" form. When reality sets in, those bubbles pop, and resources must be reallocated to productive parts of the economy.

Deflation is not the enemy, deflation is a sign of a recovering economy where the prices of artificially-inflated resources are being adjusted to reality.

Inflation is the enemy, and the US is going to experience more rapidly rising prices than folks can even imagine, at this point. QE1 and QE2 guarantee it. When Helicopter Ben can fool the banks into believing that the economy has begun to recover (printing-up another bubble), the banks will lend. The banks have over $800bn in reserves at the FED. Banks only have reserve limits of 10%, meaning that they can lend out 10x what they hold in their vaults. This is called the "money multiplier effect". What's $8,000,000,000 x 10? Think this might have an effect on prices, once it's in circulation?

It's pretty simple, if you can detach yourself from the bogus econometrics that Keynesian professors have indoctrinated kids with, for several generations now. If your money purchases more, you're wealthier for it. If it purchases less, over time, you're becoming poorer.

This video is *excellent*. It has been circulating on Facebook for a few days now. I re-posted it myself, last week.

jer 11-15-2010 11:07 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 766043)

This video is *excellent*. It has been circulating on Facebook for a few days now. I re-posted it myself, last week.

I fear that the information provided in the video will be lost by those who won't see past the fact that it is a cartoon.

I feel the video would be taken more seriously if it was a conversation between Oprah and Snooki.

zambizzi 11-15-2010 11:34 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jer (Post 766046)
I fear that the information provided in the video will be lost by those who won't see past the fact that it is a cartoon.

I feel the video would be taken more seriously if it was a conversation between Oprah and Snooki.

I'm not going to trash anyone's preferred form of entertainment, but if folks would spend a little bit of time understanding the basics of Austrian economics and the fundamentals of Human Action, instead of watching Oprah and Snooki, they just might get by more comfortably.

I sincerely feel bad for the folks who believe that the current situation is a "recession" and the economy will somehow recover. Silver is still incredibly under-valued and inexpensive and I would recommend that everyone buy as much as they can possibly afford.

jer 11-15-2010 11:52 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 766051)
I'm not going to trash anyone's preferred form of entertainment.

I'm sorry if anyone takes offense to my comment. I appreciate distractions as much as the next person, (namely DW).

Maybe a Stewart / Colbert re-enactment?

keep it simple 11-16-2010 11:08 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
I think the "childlike images" do a great job of enforcing the simpleton viewpoint. As for the facts, I just don't know enough about the US economy mechanics to comment. What I do know is, messages that even get close to "don't worry, things are starting to improve" are so far off the mark, it's untrue. My generation will survive this, but my kids generation will be blighted for decades. Job opportunities for my son & daughter have all but vanished, & I don't see that changing anytime soon.

As the western world economy bumps along the bottom for the next 10 years or so, the Eastern economies will move forward big time. By the time western economies are balanced again, they will no longer be the driving force of world economics. I don't have a problem with that. There is an inevitability about global financial wealth balancing, frankly, it's long overdue. In a few hundred years or so, I don't think there'll be individual country economies. Hopefully, by then, we'll have got over our possession orientated "I'm more equal than you" mentality. Trouble is, by then, we'll be so resource poor, population rich, we'll all be worse off.

Anyhow, many western economies have moved from producing stuff to consuming stuff, & non more so than the US. As Eastern economies move forward at a time of Western economy weakness, their economies will balance domestic consumption with Western fluctuation to ensure continued manufacturing growth. The only way forward for Western economies to keep with the program is to shift from consumption to production. There's only one Western economy that's well placed to do that right now, & that's Germany. Because the rest, & especially the US, are in no position to do that quickly, you'll see a resorting to protectionism. Via the back door at first, but eventually full on confrontation. If we reach that stage, all us hitherto cosseted western types will screw ourselves to the floor. The US will no longer be protecting the largest global domestic market. The Chinese, followed by India, followed by Europe, then the US will be the new order. So who do you think will be worse off by closing the import doors & driving their insular economy based on producing to domestic consumption?

Crap, I clearly have too much time on my hands!

Coldhardsteel 11-16-2010 01:57 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 766221)
I don't have a problem with that.

I think the reason everyone in America is freaking out is because they do have a problem with meeting the end of their golden economic age.

Maybe people think that out of nowhere they're going to lose everything.

drums_n_surf 11-16-2010 02:06 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 766043)

It's pretty simple, if you can detach yourself from the bogus econometrics that Keynesian professors have indoctrinated kids with, for several generations now. If your money purchases more, you're wealthier for it. If it purchases less, over time, you're becoming poorer.

Hey zambizzi...just curious if your an economist or something similar. I'm currently studying economics so i'm learning about all that stuff. I was under the assumption that its the neoclassical and monetarist stuff that has been getting taught since the 70s, until about 2 years ago where there seems to be a bit of a revival of Keynesian economics with the whole global financial crisis. I do agree with you that there is alot of merit in learning the basics of Hayek and the Austrian school of thought though.

toddy 11-16-2010 02:23 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
thanks for the video. I think my country (UK) is going down the pan, both economically and socially. One of my main goals is to get out when the opportunity arises.

Pollyanna 11-16-2010 02:23 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
The balloon that was the US economy popped during the previous administration. The current mob were always going to be blamed for the mess they inherited.

nhzoso 11-16-2010 03:05 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 766250)
thanks for the video. I think my country (UK) is going down the pan, both economically and socially. One of my main goals is to get out when the opportunity arises.


And go where? Liberals are everywhere. : )

nhzoso 11-16-2010 03:07 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 766252)
The balloon that was the US economy popped during the previous administration. The current mob were always going to be blamed for the mess they inherited.

and this is why nothing ever gets done.. everyone blames someone else.. so tired.

aydee 11-16-2010 03:57 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
...

Zambizzi is a long time critic of the Fed and a seriously smart guy. He can Maynard with the best of them...

Pol, not sure if the administrations had much to do with the slump other than the economic consequences of a war without an end in sight. Its a gradual unravelling of long term fiscal policies, and tectonic shifts in the global economy..

...

toddy 11-16-2010 04:06 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 766263)
And go where? Liberals are everywhere. : )

No idea, it is only a plan after all, and no opportunity has arisen as of yet. Ideally somewhere in Europe. Perhaps I can one day retire on one of those floating houses that various movements have set about constructing, maybe I could just sail around the world for a bit until I trespass on a countries waters & am disposed of.

Coldhardsteel 11-17-2010 12:37 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 766271)
Ideally somewhere in Europe.

If you want to escape liberals, come to America.

toddy 11-17-2010 12:52 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
No way, those tea party guys seem crazy, along with that dude who always cries on the TV.

Pollyanna 11-17-2010 01:15 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 766430)
No way, those tea party guys seem crazy, along with that dude who always cries on the TV.

Yup, a punk attitude can be cool in music but when it comes to running a country, I'll take intelligent, qualified practitioners every time.

Abe, agree that the problems didn't start and finish with the previous administration - there were a number of factors - but they did start with a surplus and finish with record debt. Of course, debt is fine when you have a whole lot of new, useful infrastructure to show for it ...

Coldhardsteel 11-17-2010 01:50 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddy (Post 766430)
No way, those tea party guys seem crazy, along with that dude who always cries on the TV.

Well, you said escape liberals...

PQleyR 11-17-2010 01:52 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Whoever's administration it was that supposedly caused the recent problems, this stuff goes back to at least 1913. Fractional reserve banking is a bad idea for everybody except bankers. Same goes for private central banks. The war of independence was primarily fought to free America from the tyrannical tendrils of the Bank of England, ask Thomas Jefferson!

We all have some very interesting times up ahead of us.

nhzoso 11-17-2010 03:53 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
LOL, if you want to escape liberals America is the last place you want to come to.. trust me on that one. we will all be socialist one world gov't in the near future anyway so I guess it does'nt really matter.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40210567...ew_york_times/

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article...om-uk/19719842

Funky CrÍpe 11-17-2010 04:39 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Theres nothing anyone can do...the Illuminati's have all the control.



Its just not fair! :P

Pollyanna 11-17-2010 09:27 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
The US is becoming a socialist regime just like all the other countries that provide heathcare for those who can't afford it - just look at the socialist dictatorships throughout Britain, Australia and the EU.

I don't think most of Africa and the Middle Easy have universal health care, though. At SOMEONE isn't a commie!

zambizzi 11-17-2010 11:43 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drums_n_surf (Post 766244)
Hey zambizzi...just curious if your an economist or something similar. I'm currently studying economics so i'm learning about all that stuff. I was under the assumption that its the neoclassical and monetarist stuff that has been getting taught since the 70s, until about 2 years ago where there seems to be a bit of a revival of Keynesian economics with the whole global financial crisis. I do agree with you that there is alot of merit in learning the basics of Hayek and the Austrian school of thought though.

Keynes became popular because his theories empower statists, by attempting to rationalize a centrally-planned and managed economy. This is popular with state schools, naturally, and has become the dogma of choice amongst socialist professors. Keynes admitted, himself, in his German-language translated book, that his theories were really only suitable in an absolute dictatorship, such as Nazi Germany. It should be entirely clear that Keynesian theories are nonsense and have been completely discredited...particularly in the past two years.

The Austrian school explains how markets really work and how individuals act within markets. It's simple common sense, broken down into simple language. I would recommend you read "Man, Economy, and State" by Murray Rothbard. It's a life-changing experience. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 766268)
...

Zambizzi is a long time critic of the Fed and a seriously smart guy. He can Maynard with the best of them...

Pol, not sure if the administrations had much to do with the slump other than the economic consequences of a war without an end in sight. Its a gradual unravelling of long term fiscal policies, and tectonic shifts in the global economy..
...

Ha...thanks! You're correct here, Abe. While the FED is chartered and is often influenced by Congress, it has complete autonomy to manipulate the currency, and thus the entire global economy. The outcome is the current economic chaos. Blaming political action is mostly a distraction. Nothing politicians do, on the scale that they do today, would be possible without a fiat currency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PQleyR (Post 766458)
Whoever's administration it was that supposedly caused the recent problems, this stuff goes back to at least 1913. Fractional reserve banking is a bad idea for everybody except bankers. Same goes for private central banks. The war of independence was primarily fought to free America from the tyrannical tendrils of the Bank of England, ask Thomas Jefferson!

We all have some very interesting times up ahead of us.

Bingo! The FED is successful in what it was created to do - shift all of the risk taken by the banking cartel, to the public. It was created to force taxpayers to guarantee member bank solvency. The rhetoric was otherwise (stabilize the currency, provide an elastic money supply, etc.), but it succeeded in none of those things. The FED has resided over a massive string of recessions and depressions since 1913, all created by its own policy. The USD has been devalued by roughly 95%, since then.

Here's a fantastic 40 min. video that explains the FED very well. This is where you have to look to understand the state of things.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0540567002553#

Pollyanna 11-17-2010 12:05 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 766589)
his theories were really only suitable in an absolute dictatorship, such as Nazi Germany.

Godwin's Law!

....................

aydee 11-17-2010 12:13 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zambizzi (Post 766589)
..... Blaming political action is mostly a distraction. Nothing politicians do, on the scale that they do today, would be possible without a fiat currency....

+1.




( I knew all along that you were a really an economist hiding being your Pearl Masters..)


...

Pollyanna 11-17-2010 12:38 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Thing is ... I am reading "apart from the war" ... war is the elephant in the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

nhzoso 11-17-2010 03:27 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Commie? socialism is not the same as communism.. close but not the same..basic economics actually.

toddy 11-17-2010 03:37 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel (Post 766456)
Well, you said escape liberals...

I know, I was joking. However the tea party is a lesser form of libertarianism, from what I have seen & read.

droveto 11-17-2010 03:56 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Hi Zambizzi - Great work. Ron Paul 2012, end the fed, legalize pot (with a goal to legalize every drug eventually) and let's can the income tax. It sounds crazy, but it's going to happen one way or another eventually. :)

toddy 11-17-2010 04:28 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
once legal highs become more prevalent in the mainstream (they already are on my little island south of the UK) then the UK government will be forced to start taxing legal (or illegal) drugs.

dunn7458 11-17-2010 05:41 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by droveto (Post 766644)
Hi Zambizzi - Great work. Ron Paul 2012, end the fed, legalize pot (with a goal to legalize every drug eventually) and let's can the income tax. It sounds crazy, but it's going to happen one way or another eventually. :)

That would make America the best country in the world righttt? Amirite or amirite?

nhzoso 11-17-2010 08:18 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Hmmm I would and have voted for Ron Paul and I find myself more in line with the Tea party then any other party.... I am definetly not a liberal.

Pollyanna 11-17-2010 08:55 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Nhozo, the Tea Party is there to provide simple answers to complex problems. It's mostly emotional and lacks policy substance. Silver bullets don't work. The proto-Tea Party was in power for 8 years and made a mess. Invading Iraq was a massive own goal.

The US today faces what economists call "wicked problems" ... there is NOTHING any government can do at present to make things right. The nation is going through a decline period and it's inevitable because of forces that have built for 30-40 years, and some forces that have been niggling for over 200. You can't turn around an ocean liner just like that, which is what the Tea Party promises.

Other forces are out of the US's control given the huge debt they've accrued with China. What's in your favour is that China has a strong interest in not letting the US go down the gurgler fast.

Ultimately, the US needs to boost productivity and to do something about all the people who it's traditionally allowed to fall through the net ... when you have too many "losers" you get destructive agents who actively drain and sabotage society and the economy rather than add to it ... one million people wasted in prison, ghettos that breed organised crime. Not pushing a welfare state ... more early intervention. Huge job ahead ...

nhzoso 11-17-2010 09:52 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Polly, I don't know what your reading but I have not seen any 1 word answers to anything other than health care (single payer system). The war of I raq was Bush backed by 99% of politicians democrats and republicans so do not try to say just the Tea Party who by the way was not even around at the time is responsible for it.

Our gov't is still borrowing $5billion a day right now...???


Millions of people wasted in prison?, 30% are not even citizens yet we are paying for their room and board (which 90% of the time is better than being free in their own country) Shore up the border.. that would create jobs would'nt it?

Everyone is starting to expect handouts and when they don't get it they resort to crime, and end up getting a handout 1 way or the other.

harryconway 11-17-2010 11:28 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Poly ... good marks. Yes, the "Tea Party" (without straying to far away from an ecomonic thread), is just really ... a reaction, a distraction, of about 18%. Made up of "all types".
The people who "run this country" ... who "call the shots"... who "have the wealth ... and the power" are the top 5%. They control 95% of the wealth.
In my lifetime, I've lived thru 3 major recessions. And with each recession, the collective wealth of a part of a generation is destroyed. Most people don't get to inherit millions/billions from dad. Instead, they're lucky to get their parents house. But with every recession ... people loose their jobs ... so they can't pay their mortgages ... so they loose their homes .... and the family "wealth", gone. Everything mom/dad worked for, for 25 years, gone.
Combine that, with "medical bills". In a "non-recession" environment, something like 80% of forclosure is triggered buy the need to pay "medical bills". And hey, everyone dies, and when all someone has is a home, and it costs around $100,000 a year to die ... sorry kids ... and grandkids ... no handed down wealth for you. Forget about grandma/granddad's "master plan .... the golden age of retirement ... people born in 1920, with 1950's thinking, making "financial" commitments in 1980, are being blindsided right and left, in 2010. And say "bye-bye" to handing down "anything" to anyone. Not exactly the "American" dream they were "sold".
I like Donald Trump, a lot. He's a straight shooter. Says what he thinks. Got enough "cash" in his pocket, that no one can "buy" him. He commented, the other day, about how the "Chinese" are laughing at us right now. "They" can't understand why "we" let "them" get away with as much as we do. That's bad. ..... and the other thing Mr. Trump said, was "America" needs to stop relying on OPEC oil.
Now, a lot of this applies to the rest of the world, also. Except, globally, 95% of the wealth is controlled by less that 1%.... and that 1%, they ain't gonna give "any" of it up.
In 2010, the Chinese produced and sold 13 million cars. They sure didn't sell any here. Japan produced 8 million cars, with only 1/3 of their market to the US. The US produced 6 million cars, and 2/3 of our auto sales went oversea's. Clearly, China and India are the fastest growing "consumer" markets. The "players" in the game clearly know where the field is. The "spectators" .... a lot of them don't even know they're in the wrong "parking lot" ... they're too busy having their tailgate party.

nhzoso 11-17-2010 11:34 PM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
So why we are all distracted with our arguments dems, rep's conservative, liberal.. the real smart people are doing this..http://www.cnbc.com/id/40233691

Pollyanna 11-18-2010 02:02 AM

Re: A funny state of the economy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 766764)
The war of Iraq was Bush backed by 99% of politicians democrats and republicans so do not try to say just the Tea Party who by the way was not even around at the time is responsible for it.

I said the "proto Tea Party" old boy. And we all know it was the hawks in the inner sanctum who pushed for the invasion. Neither Colin Powell and his allies or the Dems would have pushed for the invasion but it's common to get bilateral agreement once a the push for war is on so there's no accusations of lack of patriotism or playing politics. It was a destructive decision for both the US and Iraqi citizens, one that many knew to be based on spurious reasoning.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 766764)
Millions of people wasted in prison?, 30% are not even citizens yet we are paying for their room and board (which 90% of the time is better than being free in their own country) Shore up the border.. that would create jobs would'nt it?

Don't ask me why but the US has long had very high imprisonment rates. A few years ago a woman who hosted a party for her teen son was gaoled for 2 years because alcohol was available at the party (even though she made them hand in their keys). She was just a regular mum who caved into her son's pressure. I'm a big fan of slugging people in the hip pocket rather than using gaol for people who are not dangerous.

As an HR practitioner I find the over-quick approach to imprisonment there is a terrible waste of human resources - almost like declaring war on sections of your own population.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nhzoso (Post 766764)
Everyone is starting to expect handouts and when they don't get it they resort to crime, and end up getting a handout 1 way or the other.

It's a fine line between fostering a welfare mentality and hanging people out to dry. Thing is, if people can't afford food and shelter they will turn to illegal means to survive. It's a whole infrastructure issue, requiring a range of measures too complex for drummers to fully understand.


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