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-   -   Troll Control. (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67330)

mattsmith 09-29-2010 05:13 AM

Troll Control.
 
Hey Guys,

As many of you know, we had one of our more celebrated trolls finally show his regular true colors and destroy 2 perfectly good threads before bumping one of his own and trashing that one too. As is his usual custom he then psycho insulted everyone within a post of his before the usual banning.

I have since heard that some of you knew in advance that Stickit was in fact the same trouble maker aka: juststickinaround, tommycanuhearme, mad max, white drummer, johnny ringo and several others. Please guys, the only way we put a stop to this stuff is when you contact a moderator the minute you figure it out. This guy's Stickit persona actually waited 3 months this time before deciding to pull his usual idiocy, and no it's not all harmless fun. 4 years ago I had a very serious incident occur over a stupid forum troll and cops were brought in.

These guys are no laughing matter, and despite what some here believe they don't automatically change their stripes when they come back under a different name. Now in saying this I am in no way implying that

johnnyjuststickinstickittommycanuhearmemadwhitedru mmermaxringoaround

is the worst case scenario, but come on aren't you sick of the garbage, and coming from a 50+ year old man besides?

At the very least guys like this punk the dialogue we're trying to create here because they don't understand the value of positive Internet communication. For some of these guys the e world is just this big toy to be punked and ridiculed, never expected to attain the magnificence and glory of pencils, paper and posters. They don't understand or even care that for many of us younger guys especially, this is where we've grown up, learned much of this very new way of doing business, and are seen and heard in a structured and rather amazing equal playing field for all marketplace.

Every time Troll the Drumming Hack punks a thread, not only does it sidetrack important dialogue on the Internet's most important drum site, it's the equivalent of a punk spray painting the DW sign or drawing mustaches and gap tooths on the posters many of us spent a lot of time creating.

Mostly guys like this are mad because they can't play up to the level they thought as middle aged players they would have attained a long time ago, and they want every one to be as miserable and limited as they are, because they refused to make the exact positive choices that many of you on this forum are making now in a timely manner.

No you don't ignore them. You obviously see how futile that is right? Let's just put a stop to these clowns once and for all.

When you spot one of these characters, call the mod and let's end it quick.

I think enough is enough. Let's get them out of the chat room and into the practice room where they belong.

Steamer 09-29-2010 05:26 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Well my take on it is very clear Matt. I don't like to see anyone banned but when someone attacks EVERYONE in sight for no apparent clear reason {only really known to them} you have to make a move to shut the door as was done by the powers that be that pays the bills for this site.

If someone showed up at a party and did the same thing and insulted everyone and behaved badly like we witnessed here on the net in the flesh they would soon be thrown out on their ear without any grace in the matter.

When someones goal is to attack, insult and flame, cause trouble and generally act like a real a$$ towards other members coming from a wide range of backgrounds and views to offer the forum well the rules here are clear they have sealed their fate. So it goes once again.......

droveto 09-29-2010 05:34 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
I wonder if he's the same person that gave me problems on drumheads.org...
That person was a Peter Criss fanatic who when everyone finally turned on her antics, came out and said she had cancer. She was a he, and I called his employer to let them know how he was spending his time at work on their computers. :)

mattsmith 09-29-2010 05:38 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by droveto (Post 749674)
I wonder if he's the same person that gave me problems on drumheads.org...
That person was a Peter Criss fanatic who when everyone finally turned on her antics, came out and said she had cancer. She was a he, and I called his employer to let them know how he was spending his time at work on their computers. :)

I have found over the past 5 years that 90% of all the trolls on drum forums are 10 guys tops. This same guy we're discussing here almost singlehandedly destroyed the drumsmylife forum. Go over there now. I'll bet no one's posted in a month. That used to be a very healthy place. But see, guys like this....it's only about them.

Then strangely he's sort of OK at drumchat. But that's mostly because he has posted 360 times and has started over 80 different threads. so any time he posts he's in total control within the confines of his own thread. And when he posts video he's assured that 3 or so very friendly amateur guys always gives him positive input. In fact one of them /and the primary mod/ is a minister who tolerates nothing that even remotely looks to go negative. So there he's totally insulated. It seems like a good place for him too. But it doesn't get the action this place gets, and I think he really wants the bigger e stage for his little show. Sad isn't it?

BTW, if any of you who were in this last fracas has youtubes, better disable the ratings and comments for at least a week until he chills out. That's usually where he goes next.

aydee 09-29-2010 05:40 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
...

I didn't know what a troll was ( until Stan educated me with some fine 3D illustrations ), but I do know what being pointlessly rude and insulting is. I dont associate that tenor with this site which is why this is the only place I visit. I hope it stays that way

...

mattsmith 09-29-2010 05:49 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 749678)
...

I didn't know what a troll was ( until Stan educated me with some fine 3D illustrations ), but I do know what being pointlessly rude and insulting is. I dont associate that tenor with this site which is why this is the only place I visit. I hope it stays that way

...

Mainly a troll is a confused person who feels he's been insulted or done a great disservice /usually after he leveled the first misdeed himself/ then hounds your every cyberspace move...

...or in the case of youtube they're just idiot 12 year olds speed posting insults because they're bored.

Our trolls are almost always the former, and in the case of some will hold insanely petty grudges for years.

Steamer 09-29-2010 06:06 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 749678)
...

I didn't know what a troll was ( until Stan educated me with some fine 3D illustrations ), but I do know what being pointlessly rude and insulting is. I dont associate that tenor with this site which is why this is the only place I visit. I hope it stays that way

...

Amen on that Abe.............

droveto 09-29-2010 06:25 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
I find the trolling pretty entertaining mostly and have been accused of trollhood myself. Never on a drum forum, but I post to some news forums and my understanding of current events isn't very mainstream, so I can't post on MSNBC or CNN or stuff like that anymore. :)
Sometimes it can get out of hand and hurt a forum though. I never really had a problem with it and in fact the event usually gets people interacting and learning anyway...

Mendozart 09-29-2010 06:50 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
You really need to stick to the golden rule, "Don't feed the trolls". Mark will be back again, and you just need to ignore him. On another forum, he has personally admitted to having personal problems which requires medication. He will be back.

BTW, I do tend to try to be civil with him, so that the negativity stays at a minimum. Like Rodney King once said, "Can't we all get along"? ;-P

Pocket-full-of-gold 09-29-2010 06:54 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Can't believe I responded to the "Should I trade this Mapex for a Ludwig" thread.....and STILL didn't make the association.

Sometimes I think I could be as deluded as Tommy/Johnny/Max/Stickit, is.

Any bookies amongst us? I'd like odds on how long it takes that bona fide lunatic to show up again......I'm willing to wager on that one (Hi Mark.....you've just gotta be stalking, I just know you won't be able to help yourself).

"I didn't know what a troll was ( until Stan educated me with some fine 3D illustrations ), but I do know what being pointlessly rude and insulting is. I dont associate that tenor with this site which is why this is the only place I visit. I hope it stays that way"

I know now Aydee.......I'm still yet to grasp who is THAT sad that they'd bother though. Agreed.....I only have one forum that I visit and have no wish to see it exploited.

Pollyanna 09-29-2010 09:22 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendozart (Post 749699)
You really need to stick to the golden rule, "Don't feed the trolls". Mark will be back again, and you just need to ignore him. On another forum, he has personally admitted to having personal problems which requires medication. He will be back.

BTW, I do tend to try to be civil with him, so that the negativity stays at a minimum. Like Rodney King once said, "Can't we all get along"? ;-P

+1
>>>>>>>>>..........

keep it simple 09-29-2010 10:49 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Perhaps we're missing a trick here. Instead of banning them, how about opening up a trolls only section. They're banned from the main site, & we can't interact with them, but they can throw insults between themselves as much as they like. Kinda like a Drummerworld padded cell therapy room. Once they've shown they can have a calming influence over the other trolls, they can enter the main site again.

This would provide great entertainment for the rest of us, and show our compassionate side by offering rehabilitation. We could call it the Drumgeon.

aydee 09-29-2010 11:37 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 749736)
We could call it the Drumgeon.

+ 1 , Andy." For whom the cowbell trolls".

But seriously, I think Bernhard is working very hard to keep things positive and civil around here, and he allows for a large degree of acceptance for some pretty funky posters and postings, and those that value that should help him keep this place free of " these crazy little things called trolls"

...

keep it simple 09-29-2010 12:00 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 749739)
+ 1 , Andy." For whom the cowbell trolls".

But seriously, I think Bernhard is working very hard to keep things positive and civil around here, and he allows for a large degree of acceptance for some pretty funky posters and postings, and those that value that should help him keep this place free of " these crazy little things called trolls"

...

Agreed. A bit of spice is fine & welcome IMO, but like all banter, it should be respectful & devoid of personal reference. Now where's that "best Echina for jazz" thread, lol!

aydee 09-29-2010 12:34 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 749741)
Now where's that "best Echina for jazz" thread, lol!

...but there's a difference, Andy. Nastiness and targeting people is one thing but I'll admit some fire and brimstone and differences are absolutely necessary otherwise we'd have a neutral grey and inbred dweeb colony where everyone plays Ludwigs and agrees with each other .

The country north of south Korea comes to mind..

But Jazz, yea.. what with the J word? Why is it that Jazz brings out all the 'Madmax-like' warriors with their ray-guns from their 'drumgeons' ?

'tis a puzzlement..

I mean all of rock n roll is pretty cool and accepting and there's lots of agreement there. Bonham was the man, The Bealtes were the phenoms, the Brit history etc and so on...

The echo of "Why is Jazz a four letter word" stills lingers..

...

harryconway 09-29-2010 01:01 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 749739)
... But seriously, I think Bernhard is working very hard to keep things positive and civil around here, and he allows for a large degree of acceptance for some pretty funky posters and postings, and those that value that should help him keep this place free of " these crazy little things called trolls"

...

I agree ... so much of topical discussion here, is based on opinion. And everyone has one ... and is entitled to one ... and no one's opinion is "any" more valid, than someone elses. And Bernhard gives us all a pretty long leash. But a cat like this Mark guy, well, 3 strikes, you're out dude. I think it's quite an easy concept to understand ... that if you get 86'd from a place ... that's it ... done ... fin. Especially a guy from Texas, should understand the concept.
No doubt, this guy will probably be back. Someone ID's him, or 5 or 10 someone's, hit the alert button, and let Bernhard and DB handle the rest. We don't need to get all vigilante and medieval on the guy ... that would be, too much fun ...

keep it simple 09-29-2010 01:10 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
[quote=aydee;749745But Jazz, yea.. what with the J word? Why is it that Jazz brings out all the 'Madmax-like' warriors with their ray-guns from their 'drumgeons' ?

'tis a puzzlement..
[/QUOTE]I can only offer that the majority on the forum don't/can't play jazz and therefore have no real empathy with the genre. I include myself in that sector. So the question is, why doesn't metal get the same reaction? I think the trigger (non deliberate metal referance) is perceived snobbery. The "I occupy a higher place than you" attitude that a tiny minority of jazz players seem hellbent on thrusting down other player's throats is to blame IMO. Strange thing is, I've never encountered that attitude on these boards, so I can only assume tension is established by association default.

The truth of the matter is, that most accomplished jazz players do indeed occupy a higher place in the musician skills hierarchy, & many non jazz players know that to be the case. Some non jazz artists then succumb through their perception of personal vulnerability and react defensively. The circle begins. I think most non jazz players would have much less of an issue if the impression of superiority wasn't accompanied by a devaluing of non jazz genres. Again, I've not experienced that on these boards either, so I can only conclude stances are taken based on preconceptions.

mattsmith 09-29-2010 04:38 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendozart (Post 749699)
You really need to stick to the golden rule, "Don't feed the trolls". Mark will be back again, and you just need to ignore him. On another forum, he has personally admitted to having personal problems which requires medication. He will be back.

BTW, I do tend to try to be civil with him, so that the negativity stays at a minimum. Like Rodney King once said, "Can't we all get along"? ;-P

I understand your thoughts in principle, but I take this issue a little more seriously. When you've changed your phone number 2 or 3 times and had to deal with a guy who says he wants to do stuff to you then your attitude may change, in fact I'm sure of it.

Mark most likely would never go this far, but what he often does is no different than crank calling day and night and egging your house. And in the real world both of those things are illegal in almost every country.

I spend a great deal of time with e presentations and no one likes a guy just showing up with a hammer, while more often than you think they eventually insert their stuff into the three dimensional world.

Again I see the seriousness part here more of an age related issue. We younger guys understand well the interconnectedness of the Internet with real life, while some older guys with issues think the whole genre is no more than an elaborate video game that shares little relationship with anything real, when they couldn't be more wrong.

Besides this isn't an issue here of a troll just attacking from out of the blue. Mark, for example will often in the beginning play normally for weeks, then insert himself more aggressively before he entirely reveals himself. This time he was even calling people Mate to seal the identity issue before he dropped the other shoe. But still, like a guy who wants to be caught he will always post a picture somewhere of that same drumset. But you miss that for a while because you're not thinking that everyone who joins this forum might be Mark the troll.

But mostly it's a waste of time. This forum is about drum discussion. We're not an out patient alternative for people with issues, nor are such concepts even supposed to be on the radar.

According to a letter Bernhard just sent to many us...the correct response is to report it the moment you know.

That makes total sense and I think that's the only thing you can reasonably do.

larryace 09-29-2010 04:53 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
I too got a PM from Bernhard asking us to help him and the community by participating in a neighborhood watch of sorts. I think it's the least we could do in light of all he's given us.
But no doubt about it, Matt is like a bloodhound and can detect trolling like nobody's business.

We have the best forum model I've seen. I don't know how many other forums have this family atmosphere, but it certainly is my favorite destination on the net.

Glad to help out, Bernhard and Dog

Skulmoski 09-29-2010 05:06 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 749787)
We have the best forum model I've seen. I don't know how many other forums have this family atmosphere, but it certainly is my favorite destination on the net.

Here, here. I have left other forums because of bullying behavior. We have a great community here that is worth the effort to protect. I am glad lots of people here feel this way about trolls.

GJS

keep it simple 09-29-2010 05:06 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsmith (Post 749783)
We're not an out patient alternative for people with issues, nor are such concepts even supposed to be on the radar.

Matt, that was a joke. I got the mail from the coast too. My radar is now switched on.

Deathmetalconga 09-29-2010 05:17 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 749787)
I too got a PM from Bernhard asking us to help him and the community by participating in a neighborhood watch of sorts. I think it's the least we could do in light of all he's given us.
But no doubt about it, Matt is like a bloodhound and can detect trolling like nobody's business.

We have the best forum model I've seen. I don't know how many other forums have this family atmosphere, but it certainly is my favorite destination on the net.

Glad to help out, Bernhard and Dog

I think this is a great place to hang out. I don't even belong to any other drumming forums.

I think Bernhard and DB for working to keep trolls out of here and I will definitely keep my eye open for this clown.

Coldhardsteel 09-29-2010 07:48 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
From Urbandictionary:

"Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"

Obviously the practical definition of that is far more liberal.

I like that Neighborhood Watch concept. People should learn how to recognize a troll.

Or, if they want to be immature, troll back. Not hard.

con struct 09-29-2010 08:30 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
My suggestion is that whenever a troll starts trolling we immediately change the topic to meatloaf.

On one of the forums I'm on when the trolling begins the topic switches to shampoo. It works like a charm.

bobdadruma 09-29-2010 09:09 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
I vote for shampoo because talking about meatloaf makes me hungry.
I am on a diet. I've lost 10 LBS in the past three weeks.

con struct 09-29-2010 09:46 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdadruma (Post 749858)
I vote for shampoo because talking about meatloaf makes me hungry.
I am on a diet. I've lost 10 LBS in the past three weeks.

Congratulations, Bob. I could stand to drop a few pounds myself.

Swiss Matthias 09-29-2010 11:00 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Haha, funny stuff :)!! I equally like meatloaf and shampoo (as troll-topics I mean).

Matt, you must be the savviest forum and general internet communication expert ever!!

By the way, "Troll Control" would be a nice name for a band!

bobdadruma 09-29-2010 11:34 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by con struct (Post 749871)
Congratulations, Bob. I could stand to drop a few pounds myself.

I stopped eating those 900 calorie Costco muffins at work every morning
I persuaded my boss to stop buying them in an effort to cut company operating costs.
I wasn't very popular at work for a while but I have noticed that a few others that I work with look a bit thinner also.
I think that some guys were eating two or three of them each day.

Pkaneps 09-29-2010 11:47 PM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel (Post 749838)
I like that Neighborhood Watch concept. People should learn how to recognize a troll.

I guess on that last Beatles/Don't say 'retarded' thread, I should have recognized and ignored it. Didn't even suspect a troll there.

Pocket-full-of-gold 09-30-2010 12:05 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Meatloaf please........shampoo is a completely irrelevant concept for the follicley challenged amongst us. :-)

My eyes are open!

GRUNTERSDAD 09-30-2010 12:14 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Yeah. A bottle of shampoo lasts me until the expiration date.

Zickosdrummer 09-30-2010 12:19 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Gee, I have been guilty myself of a little jab now and then, but it was all in fun usually accompanied by a :-) sign. If I have offended anyone I am sorry and won't do it again. By the way I like and play jazz. Can I still play here?

bobdadruma 09-30-2010 12:52 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zickosdrummer (Post 749920)
Gee, I have been guilty myself of a little jab now and then, but it was all in fun usually accompanied by a :-) sign. If I have offended anyone I am sorry and won't do it again. By the way I like and play jazz. Can I still play here?

There is a difference between a little jab and an all out attack and rant.
We all have a sense of humor around here.
We all understand a joke.

Some people provoke friction between others just for the sake of seeing an argument start.
After it starts, they do everything in their power to keep it going.

In the end, they insult and threaten the others until they become a Troll!

Pollyanna 09-30-2010 02:14 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Trolls are people deliberately say things online that are not necessarily their beliefs, just anything that will get forum members excited. This should not be confused with sincere people who happen to think differently to most others or those who challenge the status quo because they feel there is too much groupthink going on.

To me, the intention to create conflict for the buzz is what distinguishes trolls from renegades. I think the word is bandied about too loosely and I've seen people being called a troll incorrectly (IMO) for simply holding on to their belief systems.

I think that Tommy/Stickit/Whatever sincerely believed what he said in the reading thread, just that his thoughts were naive and and intransigent. However, previous threads suggest that he feeds on conflict and the strong emotions it raises so the line is a bit blurry. Personally, I really dislike feeding frenzies on perceived outsiders. I think it's cruel and there are more civilised ways of resolving problems.

Not trying to inflame anyone or trying to speak beyond my station, that's just how I feel. I also find Matt's sleuthing work pretty scary ... makes you wonder how much people know about you on the web ... definitely a message to be cautious about putting personal info online ...

Steamer 09-30-2010 02:27 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Well you may have missed the other thread that sent him into space then Polly LOL!

His less than positive intentions and direct insults {at many} were as plain as the nose on your face in that one...just saying and the clear reason why some folks get shown the door by the host who's flipping the bill here.

bobdadruma 09-30-2010 02:39 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Polly, Stickit went way beyond the realm of simply being different and supporting unpopular views.
He got what he deserved from Matt and everyone else.
Bernhard did the right thing.

There is a difference between me defending why I like Kenny G in a civilized and funny manor and someone attacking and threatening people.

I have an unpopular belief sometimes also, but I know where to draw the line within my posts.

I respect other people here and they respect me.
Stickit respected no one!
Likewise, He got no respect from others!

harryconway 09-30-2010 02:58 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdadruma (Post 749970)
Polly, Stickit went way beyond the realm of simply being different and supporting unpopular views.
... Bernhard did the right thing.

... I respect other people here and they respect me.
Stickit respected no one!

Agreed, Best I can remember, he first showed up as "Juststickinaround" ... and got banned.
Then he showed up as "Tommycanyouhearme" ... and got banned
And recently, as "Stickit" ... and .... banned again.

bobdadruma 09-30-2010 03:15 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
harry, When I post an unpopular view, I expect to take some crap for posting it.
I have already thought about it before I posted, and I have anticipated what I am going to say to defend my view.
When people attack me for my unpopular view, I don't get mad because I was expecting that reaction.
I understand that the majority of the world will not support an unpopular view.

Usually I receive a private message form one or two people that support me.
I then know that I made my point and I am not alone in the world!

A troll doesn't think this way.
He thinks that he can bend the world to his way of thinking or he simply says unpopular things for the sake of saying them.
He will then get mad when people don't agree with him.
He will keep on going and going until he loses it and he gets banned.
He simply wants to make trouble.

Pollyanna 09-30-2010 03:53 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 749964)
Well you may have missed the other thread that sent him into space then Polly LOL!

His less than positive intentions and direct insults {at many} were as plain as the nose on your face in that one...just saying and the clear reason why some folks get shown the door by the host who's flipping the bill here.

Could well be, Stan. So it wasn't the reading thread? After a while I tuned out of that one because it became one of those painful round-and-round things.

If it was the troll music thread, I might have missed him being insulting on there because there were some pretty harsh comments directed at him and it wasn't fun to read (although I liked Jay's tips early on). But some responses seemed to be designed to bring the worst of an unstable character with weird paradigms. Personally, I prefer not to poke a rabid dog in the eye (most of the time ... ahem)

Still, credit where credit's due - the seat belt and milk threads cracked me up :)

bobdadruma 09-30-2010 03:57 AM

Re: Troll Control.
 
Your right Polly, Jay, Myself, And Others did help to, "Do Him In" in that last thread.
He deserved it!
He needed to be eliminated.
We assumed the upper hand and took control of the Troll!
We helped to kill the rabid dog so to speak.
His fault too for not seeing through us.
Only the strong survive in the real world.
The herd gets thinned of the weak.


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