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-   -   "Musicians music" (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66870)

Jeremy Bender 09-14-2010 03:55 PM

"Musicians music"
 
I may be the only one here that feels this way but here it goes... I really don't like music that mostly only musicians (read drummers) get into.
I just watched a super duper drum battle (I can't believe we still have those) chops-fest/ drummer-music videos and it just bores the hell out of me.

It seems like the majority of people in the audience are drummers and not people going to hear well crafted compositions played by a band or an ensemble. Give me a concert any-day over a clinic.

It's probably just the fact that drum battles are a real turn-off for me and having to listen to them being played over an ostinato jazz/rock groove makes for a miserable listening experience.

Bo Eder 09-14-2010 05:27 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
I don't think you're alone! Muso music is a genre all by itself. Like elevator music. Unfortunately enough people consume it that it remains on our radars.

Although, I must admit, when I saw Steve Gadd solo over an ostinato when he played with Chick Corea decades ago, I thought that was pretty damned exciting. But then again, it was Gadd, and I haven't seen anything like that in decades....

bermuda 09-14-2010 06:13 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender (Post 744447)
I may be the only one here that feels this way but here it goes... I really don't like music that mostly only musicians (read drummers) get into.

That's generally true for me as well. I basically like music if it moves me or makes me feel good. I don't qualify it by genre, or whether it's commercial, or whether the drummer or guitar or piano player is playing enough notes to make some sort of statement. I'm basically fine with anything from Abba to Zappa, as long as I happen to actually like it. That is, I don't automatically love or hate everything that Abba, or Zappa (or The Beatles, or Gentle Giant, or Count Basie) did. Each song stands or falls on its own in my book.

Typically though, I don't favor complicated music. It requires too much mental interpretation, and takes away from the enjoyment of simply listening. So with Zappa for example, I can listen to some things over and over, while I gave parts of Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar a perfunctory listen, and it's been collecting dust on the shelf ever since.

Bermuda

AnOasis 09-14-2010 06:37 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
VERY interesting post ... it made me think and do some Googling. I came upon this article:

http://www.mvdaily.com/articles/2009/05/musicians.htm

I especially like this: "The distance to the moment of creation has grown and what was at the outset the result of careful honing rather than the inspiration of the moment, comes to the listener, perfectly executed, but without a throbbing heart. The listener finds himself in a state of passive enjoyment, much like that of a visitor to a museum in front of a sculpture or painting."

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the thread Jeremy!

bermuda 09-14-2010 07:24 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AnOasis (Post 744502)
"The distance to the moment of creation has grown and what was at the outset the result of careful honing rather than the inspiration of the moment, comes to the listener, perfectly executed, but without a throbbing heart. The listener finds himself in a state of passive enjoyment, much like that of a visitor to a museum in front of a sculpture or painting."

A rather cynical and angry perspective. I can certainly derive the inspiration from music, but a song doesn't have to be inspired for me to enjoy it. I don't search or need or insist on reasons to like or dislike music. I either like something, or I don't.

Bermuda

TFITTING942 09-14-2010 07:30 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
[quote=AnOasis;744502]
"The distance to the moment of creation has grown and what was at the outset the result of careful honing rather than the inspiration of the moment, comes to the listener, perfectly executed, but without a throbbing heart. The listener finds himself in a state of passive enjoyment, much like that of a visitor to a museum in front of a sculpture or painting."

QUOTE]

So if I, the listener doesn't get it or like it am I wrong or un-educated etc. It's like the Emperors New Clothes, no one wants to admit anythings wrong but they are hip to whats going on?.

Jeremy Bender 09-14-2010 08:25 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
Well it's not that I don't appreciate the chops and I understand the business side of these events because it helps to sell instruments and other items.

I would just rather hear a drummer serving the overall musical picture of a band than music that's written specifically for a drum solo. Think - Stairway to Heaven vs. Moby Dick and you can kind of see what I mean. The compositions are vastly different.

I am blown away by the chops but not the music...

aydee 09-14-2010 08:30 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender (Post 744447)
I may be the only one here that feels this way but here it goes... I really don't like music that mostly only musicians (read drummers) get into.
I just watched a super duper drum battle (I can't believe we still have those) chops-fest/ drummer-music videos and it just bores the hell out of me.

It seems like the majority of people in the audience are drummers and not people going to hear well crafted compositions played by a band or an ensemble. Give me a concert any-day over a clinic.

It's probably just the fact that drum battles are a real turn-off for me and having to listen to them being played over an ostinato jazz/rock groove makes for a miserable listening experience.

I think you are comparing apples & oranges, Jeremy.

I think drummer videos, drum battles, and chop-fests are not intended to be music in the strictest sense of the word. The audience is generally a common interest group looking at it very clinically. The music is playing a very functional role, supporting the artists skill demonstration. Kind of like dog shows, your'e not looking at a pet, you are looking at a perfect tail or a nose.

Musician's music is a whole different bowl of wax though. I often wonder about that. Is complexity and compositional sophistication an indicator of that? perhaps, but I can think of exceptions to the rule both ways.

Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart.. very complex music loved by millions of non musicians. Zappa, Weather Report, Return to Forever very complex, very musician music with perhaps fewer takers, but then again, the Beatles very complex music loved by millions.

Steely Dan, extremely complex music which is essentially designed to be easy listening pop music.

Great thread... be interesting to read other opinions..

..

AnOasis 09-14-2010 08:32 PM

Re: "Musicians music"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 744513)
A rather cynical and angry perspective. I can certainly derive the inspiration from music, but a song doesn't have to be inspired for me to enjoy it. I don't search or need or insist on reasons to like or dislike music. I either like something, or I don't.

Bermuda

Maybe cynical and angry towards "popular" music. I see "pop" music as a machine; science-like. You get the formula, hit ENTER, and out comes a tune. It was perfectly executed, but has no pulse. ... Doesn't mean it can not be enjoyed, its just passive, momentary; the deep appreciation isn't there. Obviously this article was written by someone who considers thyself an artist in the deepest respect. ... But I'm with you, I need no reason to enjoy any song, or any piece of creativity whatever it may be.


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