DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php)
-   Off Topic Lounge (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   Hip Hop? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61683)

?uesto 04-26-2010 08:43 PM

Hip Hop?
 
What does everyone on here think about hip hop, old and new? Or the fact that there's very few live instruments and mostly drum machines and laptops? Love to hear some opinions...

Eggman 04-26-2010 08:57 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Love some of it, hate most of it. I like the old school stuff like Public Enemy, Run DMC, NWA, older Beastie Boys, etc. That stuff sounds like music to me. Newer hip hop sounds like somebody rambling nonsense over a beat they programmed in Garage Band. But then again, I haven't listened to much newer hip hop anyway, so there's probably better stuff I just haven't been exposed to.

It doesn't really bother me that they don't necessarily have live drummers, since a lot of hip hop uses samples of excellent drumming. While some might consider that a bastardization of those sacred drum parts, I think it's a testament to the versatility of those drum grooves.

Drums101 04-26-2010 10:30 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
There is some cool drumming in it, but in the more recent stuff there often use drum machines which are dumb.

Strangelove 04-26-2010 10:39 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Too many drum machines and elementary programmed bass riffs to even really be considered music anymore. Maybe muzak?

crdirtRider856 04-27-2010 07:19 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
No offense but I just cant stand hip hop. I loved Black Sheep, A Tribe Called Quest... even 2 Live Crew. Seems like none of these new acts can hold a note or even try to appeal to drummer-ers. IMO, drum machines can produce a helluva lot of good ideas, if the motivation(for loss of a better term) is there. But its not : (

Its like- "Wheres the Love??"... I would like to see what Tony Royster is doing for Jay Z these days but havent been able to find the time. Kinda like waiting for I Carly' s pre-produced drek coming up with a killer 10 minute solo to inspire kids to pick up sticks and jam out... I digress but hey- drums kick ass! And they always have. Just my input btw...

?uesto 04-27-2010 08:30 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I feel the same way about a lot of what you guys said. There are a good amount of live instruments in hip hop though. The Roots are who made it famous and cool to use live instruments, but Public Enemy, the Beastie Boys, Atmosphere, Mos Def, (who often plays percussion or regular drums at live shows), Outkast, (Andre 3000 is multi-talented, playing many instruments, (I'm not sure if drums are included)), and of course, the sub-par Gym Class Heroes.

In regard to drum machines, although you don't need the patience or discipline to play a steady beat throughout a song, (like ?uestlove of The Roots), or the ability to sit at a drum set and play a beat, (although many modern beat makers can, and do), you certainly need the creativity. Most great producers are very eclectic and creative in the beats they make. Whether they use a drum machine, electronic set, or real set, some of the better producers are very creative in that aspect.

Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crdirtRider856 (Post 693291)
I would like to see what Tony Royster is doing for Jay Z these days but havent been able to find the time.

BTW, The Roots played for him on MTV Unplugged. Check that out if you get the chance.

boomstick 04-27-2010 09:48 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I like some of it. I have 70 hip hop tracks in my itunes, but that is out of a total of 3000+ songs. My fav artists are Snoop, Dre, Beasties, and The Roots. Still love "Let Me Ride" by Dre, partially because it samples "Mothership Connection" by Parliament. I've also been digging "Think About It" by Snoop which samples a song called "I Need You" by Jerry Butler. Drum machines/loops/breaks are fine with me. If the groove is there, I just go with it.

Gethsemane 04-27-2010 09:59 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I'm not a big hip-hop fan at all. I would take soul or R&B over it any day. When it comes to rap it all old school for me. NWA, Public Enemy, and bands from that time era. It's a shame to see how some stuff these days is considered music. But for the most part I can at least tolerate that stuff.

?uesto 04-28-2010 02:24 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomstick (Post 693644)
I like some of it. I have 70 hip hop tracks in my itunes, but that is out of a total of 3000+ songs. My fav artists are Snoop, Dre, Beasties, and The Roots. Still love "Let Me Ride" by Dre, partially because it samples "Mothership Connection" by Parliament. I've also been digging "Think About It" by Snoop which samples a song called "I Need You" by Jerry Butler. Drum machines/loops/breaks are fine with me. If the groove is there, I just go with it.

Yeah the samples are mind-boggling sometimes. AC/DC, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, etc.

Here's a huge list of samples if anyone's interested.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Rock-and-Rol...ip-Hop-Samples

DanFo 04-28-2010 06:03 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I'm surprised nobody has said Wu-Tang Clan. One of my all time favourite. They were so innovative and I still rock 36 Chambers (first album). I still believe hip-hop needs another bonafide group that causes controversy (maybe while playing instruments) to bring it back to where it should be. Too many drum loops and lyrics about clubs, liquor and leaving the club (that stuff got wack a long time ago).

Pollyanna 04-28-2010 07:57 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I'd like the excuse to incorporate at least one hip hop beat into our band's set. I don't care for most hip hop I hear but the beats are fun to play in real life. I have very few hip hop tracks in my music collection - The Message, Loose Yourself ... I guess you'd class Deep Forest as more techno than hip hop.

It can be cool, though. Boomstick here did an awesome rocky hip hop mashup in the Seven Nation Army CHALLENGE! thread.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/a...2&d=1271930423

drum.lad 04-28-2010 10:43 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Well i agree with everyone old-school hip hop grabs drummers more and nowadays the roots are easily my fave hip hop band if not one of my fave bands :).... what i dont get is why do hip-hop artists of today have some of the best drummers in there live band but never record with them.

?uesto 04-28-2010 02:01 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drum.lad (Post 693869)
Well i agree with everyone old-school hip hop grabs drummers more and nowadays the roots are easily my fave hip hop band if not one of my fave bands :).... what i dont get is why do hip-hop artists of today have some of the best drummers in there live band but never record with them.

Because the appearance of a drummer, (or a full band, for that matter), on stage looks much better than just one rapper. People also get to feel the drums when they get hit. You don't get the same effects by putting some speakers up on stage.

As for why they don't record with these drummers; it's more expensive and more time consuming than making a beat and looping it. Also, few drummers are capable of, or are willing to play the same beat for a rapper for 2, 3, 4, or 5 minutes per song.

MikeM 04-29-2010 12:07 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Galactic with Stanton Moore has a lot of rapping on it. I don't know if I'd call that hip hop. Great drummer.

I also used to really like Eminem. Some of the drum programming was really cool, but most of all, I liked his rapping for it's over-the-bar-line rhythms and use of phonemes. Too much of his lyrical content rubs me wrong, but overall, I have to say I like him because if he had chosen drums for his talent, he could've been monstrous. I used to like to put on headphones to The Eminem Show and play along to his vocal lines, treating the programmed drum parts as a click.

Bsand 04-29-2010 01:02 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ?uesto (Post 693914)
Because the appearance of a drummer, (or a full band, for that matter), on stage looks much better than just one rapper. People also get to feel the drums when they get hit. You don't get the same effects by putting some speakers up on stage.

As for why they don't record with these drummers; it's more expensive and more time consuming than making a beat and looping it. Also, few drummers are capable of, or are willing to play the same beat for a rapper for 2, 3, 4, or 5 minutes per song.



My opninion, rap and hip-hop would be epic if they had live drummers for there tracks in studio. It would bring a whole new era of rap and hip-hop now, because they use a drum machine, or drum and beat loops with like Reason or Frooty Loops

GRUNTERSDAD 04-29-2010 01:26 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I put it in the same class as Country music. I have no need for it at all.

crdirtRider856 04-29-2010 07:55 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Anyone remember the LL Cool J Unplugged? I never found out the drummer in that show but it was definitely a rockin jam-out session with everything played on actual acoustical instruments. I was so inspired I forced my old band to cover "Mama Said Knock You Out", including the breakdown when they played the main riff from The Black Crowes " Hard To Handle".... It went over great and always got everyone dancin and carrying on and what not.

I cant see many rappers today being able to pull this off. A good amount of whats played commercially now is either fixed with a vocoder(?[Lil Wayne]) or sung completely out of key or out of tune(Drake, T.I.).

Now some of these R and B or blues singin females are completely TOO talented for what they are doing. Alicia Keys who is phenomenal IMO... along with a few others, deserve better musicians to back them. Maybe some Hip Hop artists should follow suit and stand out from the rest.

Its all music though so I cant ignore it no matter what I think of it. : )

muckypops 04-29-2010 12:53 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Hip Hop is garbage. Its popularity baffles me.

?uesto 04-29-2010 02:14 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by muckypops (Post 694375)
Hip Hop is garbage. Its popularity baffles me.

Wow, seriously? And coming from someone from Chicago? Please listen to Commn, Lupe Fiasco, Kanye West, (his first three albums), or Consequence. I'm sure you've only heard sh*t on the radio...

foursticks 04-29-2010 06:37 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I'm a huge underground hip-hop fan - especially the stuff from Stones Throw Records. I think Madlib is one of the most innovative artists out there and would recommend anyone who isn't a huge fan of hip-hop to give 'Shades of Blue' his remix of Blue Note records a listen - absolutely superb. J Dilla has got to be another fav - everytime I listen to 'Donuts' it's just as good as the first time I ever heard it. As for MCs - DOOM is just genius.

That's my 2 pence.

boomstick 04-29-2010 07:00 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ?uesto (Post 693757)
Yeah the samples are mind-boggling sometimes. AC/DC, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, etc.

Here's a huge list of samples if anyone's interested.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Rock-and-Rol...ip-Hop-Samples

Cool, I always want to know where the samples come from, and the more obscure the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollyanna (Post 693851)
It can be cool, though. Boomstick here did an awesome rocky hip hop mashup in the Seven Nation Army CHALLENGE! thread.

Thanks for the plug, Polly! Though I must reiterate that mix was about 80% Mark Vidler and 20% me. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks (Post 694468)
I think Madlib is one of the most innovative artists out there and would recommend anyone who isn't a huge fan of hip-hop to give 'Shades of Blue' his remix of Blue Note records a listen - absolutely superb.

Wow, good call. I just checked out some of those tracks on youtube, and I am definitely getting this album. I also really liked the video for "Slim's Return."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apN0AXjJxQE

?uesto 04-29-2010 09:23 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks (Post 694468)
I'm a huge underground hip-hop fan - especially the stuff from Stones Throw Records. I think Madlib is one of the most innovative artists out there and would recommend anyone who isn't a huge fan of hip-hop to give 'Shades of Blue' his remix of Blue Note records a listen - absolutely superb. J Dilla has got to be another fav - everytime I listen to 'Donuts' it's just as good as the first time I ever heard it. As for MCs - DOOM is just genius.

That's my 2 pence.

Yes! DOOM is the man! Dilla is great too. The Roots just covered that whole album with real instruments. Definitely check that out if you can. I think you'll like it.

Drummer Karl 04-29-2010 10:46 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I love it old school. Dilla, MosDef, The Roots and the whole Stonesthrow community are favorites. Well, Madlib might be an excellent example when it comes to musical diversity...truly on the basis of cultural diversity.

And guys like Chris Dave with the Robert Glasper Trio interpret those beats and "samples" in such a great and unique way.

Karl

foursticks 04-29-2010 11:08 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I like Madlib's younger brother Oh No - Dr No's Oxperiment is a phenomenal listen especially his sample use.

?uesto - I take it you've heard Madvilliany? That is one hell of a collaboration..

DanFo 04-30-2010 02:07 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Speaking of J Dilla, one of my favourite songs by him is "E=MC2 (squared)

And just for secondary conversation, what's your interpretation between the difference in hip-hop and rap?

?uesto 05-02-2010 06:41 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks (Post 694574)
I like Madlib's younger brother Oh No - Dr No's Oxperiment is a phenomenal listen especially his sample use.

?uesto - I take it you've heard Madvilliany? That is one hell of a collaboration..

Are you kidding me? Of course! Great album!


Quote:

Originally Posted by DanFo (Post 694654)
And just for secondary conversation, what's your interpretation between the difference in hip-hop and rap?

Many people will give you many answers. I've debated this on other websites, and with other people, but I certainly don't have a set in stone definition for either. I could say that hip-hop is more music like The Roots, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Kanye West, and then on to artists like Lupe Fiasco and Kid Cudi. Rap, on the other hand, seems more like Mobb Deep, Wu-Tang Clan, maybe Eminem... If you know most of these artists, you can tell the obvious difference.

Also, I know KRS-One said, "Rap is something you do.. Hip Hop is something you live." Many people like KRS will argue that "rap" is the music, "hip hop" is the culture.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer Karl (Post 694564)
And guys like Chris Dave with the Robert Glasper Trio interpret those beats and "samples" in such a great and unique way.

Karl

?uestlove said, in this month's Modern Drummer Magazine, (pick it up, if you haven't already), that there's nothing wrong with sampling, especially when done right, and in an effective, good sounding way. I'm not gonna tell you what else he says, but it was a very good read.

DanFo 05-02-2010 09:15 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Yeah I've read that KRS-One quote. And it kinda makes sense. If I was an artist and somebody asked me what I did, I wouldn't say I hip hop, I'd say I rap. And therefore you are a rapper. And as for a lifestyle, to define a hip-hop lifestyle is kind of hard now because it's skewed. First it started out with B-Boying and dance stuff. Then came the west coast-east coast thug style and now it's kind of preppy and skaterish (Common, Lupe). I know there's more to it than that but it's just my generalization of it all.

moe.ron 05-02-2010 03:38 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
i always get into a debate over this. i feel hip hop is a legit art form and rap is what most of you are referring to. there's a lot of great hip hop going...blue scholars, aesop rock, atmosphere, the roots, OLD gym class heroes(trust me they're friends of mine and the older stuff is great and they completely sold out), brother ali. and as for live instruments, arrested development was the first live instrument hip hop group that i know of i think

?uesto 05-03-2010 08:13 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by moe.ron (Post 695531)
i always get into a debate over this. i feel hip hop is a legit art form and rap is what most of you are referring to. there's a lot of great hip hop going...blue scholars, aesop rock, atmosphere, the roots, OLD gym class heroes(trust me they're friends of mine and the older stuff is great and they completely sold out), brother ali. and as for live instruments, arrested development was the first live instrument hip hop group that i know of i think

Arrested Development isn't live instrumentals, I don't think. And they got started in the 90s anyway. The Beastie Boys and Public Enemy certainly had live instrumentals. The Procussions did too...


You have incredible taste in music though. That pretty much sums up all the hip hop I listen to.

moe.ron 05-03-2010 11:35 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
i say arrested development because i think they were an actual hip hop band that used live instruments on a consistent basis rather than hire musicians to play on tracks

boomstick 05-04-2010 02:59 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
I think of hip hop as the music genre and rap as what the MC does, i.e. the rhythmic spoken word performance.

boomstick 05-10-2010 04:40 AM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks (Post 694468)
I think Madlib is one of the most innovative artists out there and would recommend anyone who isn't a huge fan of hip-hop to give 'Shades of Blue' his remix of Blue Note records a listen - absolutely superb.

Hey foursticks, thanks for the heads up on this album. I got the CD a few days ago, and I'm really digging it.

foursticks 05-10-2010 11:41 PM

Re: Hip Hop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomstick (Post 698572)
Hey foursticks, thanks for the heads up on this album. I got the CD a few days ago, and I'm really digging it.

Good man! Glad you enjoyed. Check out his Yesterday's New Quintet stuff too - there's some great stuff on there too.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com