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-   -   What is your feelings about nostalgia? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52111)

Deltadrummer 07-23-2009 08:51 PM

What are your feeling about nostalgia?
 
I was listening to Donald Fagen and Walter Brecker talk about there upcoming shows in NYC. They are dong tribute nights to their albums Royal Scam, Aja and Gaucho. They didn't tour in the later seventies so never did a tour for these albums.

At one point, Donald Fagen says he was not about nostalgia and really didn't understand it; but some people had very strong feelings about the music. Walter Brecker said that they were about commodifying their music, which is nostalgic. They both agreed that they were hypocrites. They're doing the shows. Remember Deacon Blues, Donald?

I think they need the money. The block is called The Rent party. They promise this is the best band they have ever assembled. I love Steely Dan, waited two decades to see them live; but don't think I ever need to see them again.

I found this idea to be very interesting since much music making today is about nostalgia. I have been in two tribute bands and found it to be a horrendous experience. Lot's of egos and pretense. What do people think about the whole nostalgia craze of tribute bands and acts that should have retired decades ago doing mega-million dollar tours? Is it destroying new music making? What is the role of nostalgia in music making?

PQleyR 07-28-2009 05:42 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
I've really never been sure about this one, I keep changing my mind...

However, one thing's for certain...nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

druid 07-28-2009 11:49 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
I vary on feelings about nostalgia....sure there are times I want to go back and listen to many things I did years ago...and kind of reminisce etc....but the bad side I see from it is...

1. People never moving on...some people's taste literally never changes.
2. Radio and how stagnant it is...good example some raido in Pittsburgh is nothing but ...well Butt Rock....it's like being in the 70's... forever...which I think is horrible.
3. To add to #2 some jazz stations play material so conservative....it's hard to call it jazz
4. I guess I do become bored easily and like to hear things that are fresh and new....

I guess I am a mixed bag ...but I do not always think older is better or newer is junk. Some people do and I think it results in being very close minded about hearing anything different.

larryace 07-29-2009 12:22 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Nostalgia is big business, period. People like what they are used to. Joe Non musician Everyman would rather see a Pink Floyd reunion tour than Mars Volta. And for the musicians who do it for the money, I don't hold it against them. They've earned the right to do it.

Mediocrefunkybeat 07-29-2009 12:34 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
As much as I love listening to old records, I think a lot of people need to get over the past. I've heard so many Led Zeppelin clones it's unbelievable and whilst I think Led Zeppelin were a good band, music has come on so far since then. Why don't I hear anybody pushing the envelope when I go out? Simply because the music taste of a lot of people is incredibly conservative. They listen to music from one decade and then decide to copy that. Revivals can be great; if they're done properly - taking elements of the old and new to push boundaries - Ska music has done this, as has a lot of 60's Psychedelia and with the second I refer to bands such as The Mars Volta and The Shortwave Set - who do COMPLETELY different forms of music with a similar range of very baseline influences.

What I'm saying is that sticking to one thing all your career can only really be done by one or two bands. And that's because they're either incredibly gifted songwriters, or have the sheer energy to pull it off. AC/DC being an example of the latter, along with Slayer - in this instance, Metallica have completely failed. On the other side of the coin, you get bands like Portishead and Radiohead who have decided to completely change their styles over the duration of their careers (Portishead's new album is absolutely NOTHING like the previous one and even the previous one was remarkably different from their first). I personally think that artistic development is a legitimate means to judge a band. Led Zeppelin even tried to change their style (with mixed results) but everybody focusses on the period up to Physical Graffiti or arguably Houses of the Holy) and I can respect even a failure on that front, but very rarely can I forgive a band or artist who do not change. Yngwie Malmsteen has been churning out the same rubbish for years. Steve Vai has arguably done much the same, even Joe Satriani is somewhat guilty, but Robert Fripp? No way. No Fripp or even King Crimson album sounds even remotely the same. And I respect that greatly.

freebirdgdw 07-29-2009 04:26 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

EDIT: damn someone all ready posted this. major fail.

caddywumpus 07-29-2009 04:42 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freebirdgdw (Post 598235)
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

EDIT: damn someone all ready posted this. major fail.

Whenever I think about the past, it brings back so many memories.

-Steven Wright

I saw a Beatles tribute band perform the entire White Album recently. It was great. I dig nostalgic stuff, if it's stuff I'm into. I don't want to see an Alaskan klondike panning-for-gold-tunes revival band...

Deltadrummer 07-29-2009 07:27 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Great responses. Keep 'em comin.'

The grammatical error in the title came from changing it. I was going to ask what is nostalgia in music? Music can be very sentimental and nostalgia is a type of sentimentality.

The Dan seemed to exemplify the question. It was ironic that they didn't seem to see that themselves, then they saw the hypocrisy in it all. Much of the music on those albums was nostalgic in character: Aja, Home At Last, Deacon Blues. Royal Scam.

Those jazz rock guys in some ways inherited a tradition that was gone. There is sense of nostalgia in that. Steely Dan were the last of the tin pan alley tradition, even though they performed their own music. They might not see themselves as such. There is some nostalgia in that and I don't think they would disagree that they had nostalgia for it; I think the idea that something is lost is a big part of the classic rock tradition, esp after the decline of the hippsters. It's what Deacon Blues is about.

willieboy_sf 07-29-2009 08:03 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Interesting question. I guess the answer depends on what exactly you mean by "nostalgia." If you mean a longing for things of the past that is rooted in the inability to grow or evolve (e.g., listening to the same mediocre music that you liked in high school), then that is a dead end. However, there is another type of nostalgia that has more to do with a bittersweet sense of the passing of time and our own mortality. That is human. It can also be the stuff of great art (e.g., Marcel Proust's masterpiece "Remembrance of Things Past"). In the context of music, there is some music that, on its own merits, is beyond time, and can never be nostalgic in the sense of being stale. Nobody would say that it's nostalgic to love Bach's solo cello suites or Coltrane's Love Supreme. Anyway, those are my thoughts as I sip a beer before bedtime..........

Pollyanna 07-29-2009 11:48 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
We do nostalgia better now than we did in the old days :)

Before rock was corporatised and formulaic there seemed to be generally a greater joy of invention and chances to be imaginative. Rock was new, the musicians were idealistic, and their influences came from players in other genres rather than the guys who were influenced by the guys who were influenced by some old black guy hardly anyone's heard of.

The nostalgia craze seems to be largely fuelled by the original acts who are still capable of tossing aside their walking frames and performing. There's serious dollars on offer with broadcast rights that are available to celebrities. Once the last of the Grand Old Men of Rock retire to sedate and gracious living (or to their coffins) I suspect the music will fade to an increasing minority interest and the next generation of "golden oldies" will do the circuit.

If Eminem is still fit and playing my guess is that he'll be playing nostalgia gigs in 25 years time, reminding the fans of an innocent time when hip hop was fresh and new :)

Maybe it would be good for new musicians if the old superstars stepped aside and freed up some of those promoter $$ for the next generation? Still, the public demand is there and it's probably too much fun to miss out on - belting it out with your old cronies in front of thousands of adoring fans. Everything else would probably seem tame by comparison.

Edit: I agree MFB. Bob Fripp & co are still coming up with fresh ideas, often recombining elements of their old material in new ways (something Uncle Frank liked doing). I'd expect them to still attract a nostalgia crowd, knowing he relied on to wow them by doing what he's always done - trying something different :) One thing they wouldn't expect is for him to play Schizoid Man.

Mediocrefunkybeat 07-29-2009 01:10 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Well Fripp probably WOULD play Schizoid Man, he certainly was about ten or so years ago, but doing it in a completely different way. The tunes aren't important, it's the manner of interpretation. Jazz standards will always be great tunes, but they're only bad when people re-hash them the same way without any new invention - even if it means changing one small, small element. This is a discussion I had with JazzGregg on a bus the other day, practically word for word.

GRUNTERSDAD 07-30-2009 03:22 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
I'm so old I forgot all about nostalgia. At least if I remember correctly I did.

bermuda 07-30-2009 04:12 AM

Re: What is your feeling about nostalgia?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer (Post 596785)
At one point, Donald Fagen says he was not about nostalgia and really didn't understand it; but some people had very strong feelings about the music. Walter Brecker said that they were about commodifying their music, which is nostalgic.

There are plenty of artists trading on what they did best in the past, and I have no problem listening to music that I enjoyed at some point before 'now'. I can grow, and remember, at the same time. But I don't quite understand an artist who's not sure if they should play their own music, just because it was 30 years ago. It doesn't matter if the songs were toured or not. If the music was valid then, and was popular as well, what's the big deal playing the old songs? It's too bad Becker and Fagen have to somehow 'justify' doing it. Sheesh, 'artists'... "we already did something great, let's not do that again!"

Bermuda

Deltadrummer 07-30-2009 06:46 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Yeah, it was a little weird.

I was talking about this with one of my band mates and he claims that it was all slap stick. They knew perfectly well what they were doing. He thought they were saying that they could not share a sense of nostalgia for their music that fans had. He saw it as a Fagen is Costello and Brecker the straight man kind of thing. Maybe with age, the biting satire in their music is being lost and it is becoming more nostalgic.

aydee 07-30-2009 07:49 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Ya, Don & Walter have a pretty " below the radar " sense of humor. Are you talking about the docu on MSG channel recently?

The are true bonafide 'arteests' though.. agree with Bermuda there..

Ps- Ken, did you get the blurb by the Rolling Stone guy about how they refused to be photographed for the cover of the magazine??!!!

Now, what kind of knuckleheads would take a chance on committing career hara- kiri.

arteests?

elpol 07-30-2009 10:33 PM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
i think nostalgia is all fine and dandy, unless it becomes the only means of defining your life.

it reminds me of where i come from. it also reminds me that i really, really enjoy looking for and discovering new things.

baz 07-31-2009 12:18 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
...in the past year

I saw Rush, Tragically Hip, Gordon Lightfoot, the Rankin Family, Great Big Sea, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond, and Elton John.

I did not go to hear their new stuff, I went to hear the music that has become encoded in my DNA.

Twenty years from now, I maight have an appreciation for what these guys are doing now.

barry

Pavlos 07-31-2009 12:42 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer (Post 598279)
Great responses. Keep 'em comin.'

The grammatical error in the title came from changing it. I was going to ask what is nostalgia in music?

Yes, it is a grammarical error and it's driving me freaking nuts! Changing it to "What are your feelings about nostalgia?" wouldn't be a bad idea. (can you do that with a thread title?)

As for the actual question, can't remember where I heard it but Music is supposed to be on of the strongest triggers for memories.

What I find bad is when an artist hits something big through whatever experimentation and then feels the need to emulate that success. I think many groups just hit on a forumula and try to recapture that but only become pale imitations of themselves.

elpol 07-31-2009 01:19 AM

Re: What is your feelings about nostalgia?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlos (Post 598799)
Yes, it is a grammarical error and it's driving me freaking nuts! Changing it to "What are your feelings about nostalgia?" wouldn't be a bad idea. (can you do that with a thread title?)

or... what about just that one single, solitary feeling? "What is your feeling about nostalgia?"


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