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deltadrummer1 04-16-2009 12:47 AM

Truth
 
How do we define 'truth'? Is truth relative or absolute or can it be both? Can two contradictory things be true at the same time?

Ian Williams 04-16-2009 01:02 AM

Re: Truth
 
Speak your mind without lies, nor offense, nor fear. Nevertheless, what do you think?

frank0072 04-16-2009 08:42 AM

Re: Truth
 
one definition of truth is "transparancy", so absolutely nothing to hide and totally transparant...

VedranS 04-16-2009 06:24 PM

Re: Truth
 
Really?? On a drumming forum? Sure, why not.

I guess one question would be, is there any objective truth? What type of truth would be objective? Moral truth? I might say no on the moral truth front, though one may be able to make a case to me regarding "other" truth, like the truth of the statement Newton's first law being objective. On the other hand, if we get all our information through our senses, how can we be certain that even if there is "truth" we have the ability to perceive it? Could it be that there is both objective truth, but also many different subjective truths that that may not be related? Or maybe neither? So yeah, lots of questions and people have been asking them for a long long time. Personally, I'm not quite willing to shut the door on any of those possiblities...

genericdrummingusername 04-16-2009 06:34 PM

Re: Truth
 
Truth is a brand of custom drums that use Kellor shells.


What?

Mediocrefunkybeat 04-16-2009 07:02 PM

Re: Truth
 
One truth and that is self-evidence of yourself. As the famous phrase goes 'cogito ergo sum.'

eddiehimself 04-16-2009 07:11 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by genericdrummingusername (Post 565160)
Truth is a brand of custom drums that use Kellor shells.


What?

It's also a single by Seether.

Personally i think truth is relative. I think that anything that you believe to be true will be true as far as you see. It might not actually be true but then again can we really say that anything is true? After all the only things we can say to be true are what we experience, and sometimes that can be misleading. I think words like "factual" and "objective" can be misleading because these are only really things that are believed by a majority or by an authority.

Jeremy Bender 04-16-2009 07:25 PM

Re: Truth
 
Have a good long audit with the IRS They will be happy to show you the truth. Try proving that they're wrong too !

Mr. Pasquini 04-20-2009 06:42 AM

Re: Truth
 
Truth:
Through my personal concept of plausible deniability combined with my ultimately perfect concept of the 50/50 law of equal chance here's my feeling on things:

Nothing is truth because nothing can be proven, my inability to prove anything comes from the conceptualization of life as a sham. Everything can be lied about and everything is (in general) just a system of signals being interpreted by my brain. Considering the infinite odds against intelligent life none of this can or should be happening. Fortunately the infinite odds can be reduced to 50/50 (things either happen or they don't) 100% of the time thus making life not only possible, but by standards nearly more probable than not. So there you have it, truth exists only as thought because in reality there is no reality because of a 50% chance that nothing has or will ever happen.



Anyway:

Truth is actually a sham, it's an accepted ultimatum passed down by the populace. Just because one discovers something that is in all actuality true it doesn't mean anyone will believe him/her. In fact many findings are regarded as untrue until one amasses the largest number of people, guns, and money to back up his or her philosophy.

larryace 04-20-2009 06:55 AM

Re: Truth
 
I love playing drumset, and that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...

FourOnSix 04-20-2009 07:20 AM

Re: Truth
 
truth is a concept we use to convey an idea to one another. it is no more real then anything else you can imagine. just because the word truth has an accepted or agreed upon meaning, does not give it existance. not in the physical sense. and the physical sense is the only thing that can be used as an absolute standard of reality because anything else is a figment of your imagination

aydee 04-20-2009 08:11 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deltadrummer1 (Post 564875)
How do we define 'truth'? Is truth relative or absolute or can it be both? Can two contradictory things be true at the same time?

There is no known absolute truth.

And if someone knows, then he or she isnt of this earth.

All truths are relative. There is your truth & my truth.

From the truth of the colonists v/s the truth of the American Indian,

to the truth of scientific experiments v/s the relativity theory,

its all basis so many assumptions that the one thing we can be sure of is thats there's no sure thing here.

Any event, experience, place, person, or thing can be interpreted a myriad different ways.

The definition of truth for me would be that it or an honest expression of an experience or a belief, which at best can only be an interpretation.



.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 566374)
I love playing drumset, and that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...

You sure you 'aint dreaming this whole up? ; )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender (Post 565188)
Have a good long audit with the IRS They will be happy to show you the truth. Try proving that they're wrong too !

Here's the living nightmare........

DrummerDavid 04-20-2009 10:42 AM

Re: Truth
 
I can't handle the truth.

Monica McCoy 04-20-2009 06:20 PM

Re: Truth
 
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

Deltadrummer 04-20-2009 06:46 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deltadrummer1 (Post 564875)
How do we define 'truth'? Is truth relative or absolute or can it be both? Can two contradictory things be true at the same time?

Truth can be both absolute and relative. Two contradictory things can be true at the same time; but two things that are contradictory can never be true at the same time.

aydee 04-20-2009 08:45 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer (Post 566521)
two things that are contradictory can never be true at the same time.

Contradictory can be seemingly contradictory.

Einstein did end up concluding that only God could have created the universe because it was the most flawless and perfect form possible, and there was no other explanation for it

805Drummer 04-20-2009 08:53 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 566553)
Einstein did end up concluding that only God could have created the universe because it was the most flawless and perfect form possible, and there was no other explanation for it

Yeah, but there have been millions of gods throughout history. It could have been your god, it could have been anyone's god. These gods and their creation stories cannot coexist, because they all contradict each other.

Monica McCoy 04-21-2009 01:05 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 566553)

Einstein did end up concluding that only God could have created the universe because it was the most flawless and perfect form possible, and there was no other explanation for it

Where did you get that information? From your pastor?

http://www.celebatheists.com/index.p...lbert_Einstein

Einstein didn't believe in a sky daddy.

805Drummer 04-21-2009 01:07 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monica McCoy (Post 566657)
Where did you get that information? From your pastor?

http://www.celebatheists.com/index.p...lbert_Einstein

Einstein didn't believe in a sky daddy.

Thanks for the link, I was gonna disagree, but I didn't have any sources to back me up.

FourOnSix 04-24-2009 01:17 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDavid (Post 566399)
I can't handle the truth.

it took until the thirteenth post to reference a few good men, im a little dissapointed

aydee 04-24-2009 03:48 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monica McCoy (Post 566657)
Where did you get that information? From your pastor?

http://www.celebatheists.com/index.p...lbert_Einstein

Einstein didn't believe in a sky daddy.

"I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

Einstien- Telegram to a Jewish newspaper, 1929; [pg.147, Calaprice]. (Spinoza believed the more one studies and understands the universe the better one understands God)

"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man...In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."

[Letter to a child who asked if scientist pray, January 24, 1936; pg. 152 Calaprice]


I'm agnostic btw, since you sort of asked by suggesting I had a pastor..

SGT_Drummer 04-24-2009 04:03 AM

Re: Truth
 
agreed, truth is relative and obsolete quite honestly. but in order for there to be truth, there has to be non-truth, or a lie. truth is also dependent upon the situation. for example, a buddy of mine asked his father, a well known pastor in our area, this question: if something is 99 cents, and i tell you it is a dollar, am i lieing? his father's response after a few seconds of thought was this: well, if you told me that in an attempt to decieve me it would be a lie, but if it were as intended as honest as an answer as if i asked if you woke up this morning and you said yes which is invariably true the no, it would not be a lie.

my point is that i think truth is a relative term dependant upon the situation.

Mediocrefunkybeat 04-24-2009 04:31 AM

Re: Truth
 
A lie is when I say I can programme in C. I've spent all day battling at it and I am failing badly.

Max/MSP on the other hand, which is graphical C, is easy.

jer 04-24-2009 02:41 PM

Re: Truth
 
Well, there certainly are a lot of un-truths, therefore; there must be truth.

GRUNTERSDAD 04-24-2009 04:15 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jer (Post 567852)
Well, there certainly are a lot of un-truths, therefore; there must be truth.


Touche...finally the truth comes out.

jer 04-25-2009 02:38 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 567876)
Touche...finally the truth comes out.

I'm not sure if that should be followed with a "ba-dum,cha!" or a "waa, waa, waa"...

Either way, nice touch.

Mediocrefunkybeat 04-25-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jer (Post 567852)
Well, there certainly are a lot of un-truths, therefore; there must be truth.

Truth is not necessarily a polar opposite. If we accept a theory of 'shades of truth' then there doesn't necessarily even have to be a truth.

SGT_Drummer 04-26-2009 03:40 AM

Re: Truth
 
most importantly of all, we're FRIGGIN DRUMMERS!! not philosophers. so i'm going back to my par-rum-pum-pum's and my boom-chicka's before all this intelligent thought makes my head explode or even worse, spontaneously combust!

if anyone would like to learn more about "philosophy", i strongy suggest readin about guys like xenophon and julian augustus (NOT Julius). xenophon has a large collection of writings that will make you sit back and go "Hrmm." i'm currently reading a 4 book series on the life of Julius Ceasar and from what i can tell the man was a military genious, not so much a philosopher.

Mediocrefunkybeat 04-28-2009 12:47 AM

Re: Truth
 
Personally rather fond of my Sartre. Yes, I am an atheist.

Ainulindale 04-28-2009 02:04 AM

Re: Truth
 
truth and lie, right and wrong, good and evil - meaningless words all, there is only perception...

wy yung 04-28-2009 03:29 AM

Re: Truth
 
# a fact that has been verified; "at last he knew the truth"; "the truth is that he didn't want to do it"
# conformity to reality or actuality; "they debated the truth of the proposition"; "the situation brought home to us the blunt truth of the military threat"; "he was famous for the truth of his portraits"; "he turned to religion in his search for eternal verities"
# accuracy: the quality of being near to the true value; "he was beginning to doubt the accuracy of his compass"; "the lawyer questioned the truth of my account"
# United States abolitionist and feminist who was freed from slavery and became a leading advocate of the abolition of slavery and for the rights of women (1797-1883)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

If you are really curious you could read something like this.
http://www.powells.com/biblio/0198752504?&PID=31879

Sometimes "truth" is a matter of opinion. Whether or not it is a "fact" as opposed to a "truth" I cannot say.

Ian Williams 04-28-2009 03:57 AM

Re: Truth
 
The truth told with bad intent Beats all the lies you can invent. William Blake

TheGroceryman 04-28-2009 11:36 PM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iwilliams (Post 568956)
The truth told with bad intent Beats all the lies you can invent. William Blake

Thats an awesome quote!

Ian Williams 04-29-2009 12:17 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGroceryman (Post 569305)
Thats an awesome quote!

Thanks, mate. Proverbs have a meaningful power in our lives.

deltadrummer1 04-29-2009 07:20 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 566385)
There is no known absolute truth.

And if someone knows, then he or she isnt of this earth.

All truths are relative. There is your truth & my truth.

From the truth of the colonists v/s the truth of the American Indian,

to the truth of scientific experiments v/s the relativity theory,

its all basis so many assumptions that the one thing we can be sure of is thats there's no sure thing here.

Any event, experience, place, person, or thing can be interpreted a myriad different ways.

The definition of truth for me would be that it or an honest expression of an experience or a belief, which at best can only be an interpretation.


So is the statement "All truths are relative" relative? And are you absolutely certain that the statement "there is no absolute truth" is true? Contrary beliefs are possible but are contrary truths possible?

deltadrummer1 04-29-2009 07:28 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wy yung (Post 568937)

Sometimes "truth" is a matter of opinion. Whether or not it is a "fact" as opposed to a "truth" I cannot say.

Would truth be truth if it is subjective? If something is true, isn't it true for everyone- everywhere- all the time?

aydee 04-29-2009 07:31 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deltadrummer1 (Post 569448)
So is the statement "All truths are relative" relative? And are you absolutely certain that the statement "there is no absolute truth" is true? Contrary beliefs are possible but are contrary truths possible?

You my friend, are now delving into the depths of matters that drove Socrates up the wall.

Are truths and beliefs just semantics..interchangeable?..I dont know.

I think so.

I also think all absolute statements have to come with assumptions based on existing beliefs... so therefore yes... everything is relative.

The sharpest I can define Truth for myself is: " what is".
But then the underlying assumption is " according to me".

So are you a physicist?

deltadrummer1 04-29-2009 07:35 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 566553)
Contradictory can be seemingly contradictory.

Einstein did end up concluding that only God could have created the universe because it was the most flawless and perfect form possible, and there was no other explanation for it

So what you are saying is that the evidence Einstein stumbled upon pointed to the truth that God exists?

dom 04-29-2009 07:37 AM

Re: Truth
 
http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php...bd2f3cc50de94b

guess you can not embed stuff here...enjoy

aydee 04-29-2009 07:44 AM

Re: Truth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deltadrummer1 (Post 569453)
So what you are saying is that the evidence Einstein stumbled upon pointed to the truth that God exists?

An assumption he made in the absence of empirical scientific evidence.....I assume.


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