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-   -   Fighting in Hockey: In or Out (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46920)

Bruce M. Thomson 02-06-2009 07:15 PM

Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
OK, put your 2 cents in, it is being discussed a little more seriously now and I thought perhaps there might be a few opinions out there. For myself I say out, change the built in, old fashioned culture that has been the same old fall back excuse for ever.

Other wise we might as well start up the Rollerball league now. (Norman Jewison movie)

GRUNTERSDAD 02-06-2009 07:23 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Out..Make room on the roster for another skill player and get rid of the goons. Every team has one. Olympic and College hockey seem to get along OK without it.

michael drums 02-06-2009 07:46 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Well...


It's like the old saying, "I went to the fights the other night and a hockey game broke out".


But, I gotta say...IN! It adds to the thrills of watching grown men skate around on ice with sticks in their hands, trying to put a hard rubber flattened-round object into a goal that's protected by a large human being. All the while trying to run an opposing teams' player into the wall, or using the stick as a way to disrupt the flow of said opposing players' momentum whether they have control of said flattened-round object or not.

And also, the occasional use of said stick as a way to injure said opposing player intentionally or not.


P.S. Go Caps!!!


;-)

Mr. Pasquini 02-06-2009 07:57 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
I once went to a professional fight and a hockey game broke out....

Amerrybrit 02-06-2009 08:07 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
In, fighting is allowed in hockey so that the players know they will face retribution if they try to cheap shot another player.you can cheap shot all you want, but you better have the guts to fight, because you will be challenged.

GRUNTERSDAD 02-06-2009 08:19 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Most fights last 15 - 20 seconds with helmets on. Nobody wins, they fall on the ice or dance around and waste time. I have MMA if I want to watch real fights. I want to see skill.

Garvin 02-06-2009 10:03 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Are you kidding? Getting rid of fighting would suck! The sport isn't all about fighting. There aren't fights in every game. They are short anyway. Every team needs an enforcer (or two) to keep people from doing stupid things. Hockey is an awesome game to watch, the prospect of seeing a fight is just one of the things that keeps the game as unpredictable as it is.

lewisn27 02-06-2009 10:12 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
I have never really watched a full game of hockey but I would say IN! It makes it fuch more of a better sport. Whats football (soccer) without the occasional bit if fisticuffs? lol

GRUNTERSDAD 02-06-2009 10:17 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Even with enforcers, there is still high sticking, boarding, charging, slashing, tripping, cross checking. They enforce and deter nothing. Most of the fights stem from a goon who decides it's his business to get "even" with a player that gets a good, legal shot on somebody. That person is embarrassed he got knocked on his butt so the goon takes over. If you get blasted, man up and blast back. Don't wimp out and let a goon do it for you. And you agreed with me that they are short anyway. Short, pointless, and a waste of time. Beat me with finesse or get off of the ice.

Garvin 02-06-2009 11:36 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Yeah, but there's a size difference too. Not everyone can hit, or throw their weight around... The finesse players don't really get their hands dirty like that. Look at Datsyuk for example. Its hard to even touch the guy!

FourOnSix 02-07-2009 01:47 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
IN.

Fighting is a huge part of hockey. Its a way to swing momentum in the game and generate frustration for the other team.

taking fights out of hockey would completely ruin the game imo. and i also don't believe its going to happen

on a side note there are no goons on a hockey team, you might have an enforcer, but that guy can still play hockey. its not like all he knows how to do is check and fight.

GRUNTERSDAD 02-07-2009 02:12 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
1 Attachment(s)
Wanna bet?? here are some stats
Attachment 24466


Read this article about goons and what "they are paid to do"

I've been watching hockey for 50 years. You want to call them enforcers, OK. I'll call then goons.
http://ca.askmen.com/sports/business..._business.html

Garvin 02-07-2009 03:02 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Well whatever you call em', they are a necessary evil... An exciting, necessary evil...

Mr. Dyck 02-08-2009 04:51 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
I grew up at the tail end of the bench brawl era and I miss seeing them. Maybe it's the fact I'm Canadian that I'm for fighting or maybe I just enjoy watching it. It can't be denied that when a fight starts the arenas go nuts. It is a crowd pleaser and definitely wakes the fans in a quiet building. I'm sure no one at home turns off their sets either. It will be a sad day if they ever take it out. The highsticking and cheap shots are a result of too much equipment and an overall lack of respect in players now. The game still needs so-called "goons" to police the league. If Ulf Samuelon had got his ass kicked a few times he may not have ended so many careers with his cheap shots. Some of these guys that stick out their knee might think twice next time if someone came in and beat the crap out of them. If anything there should be more fighting and there maybe a little more respect among players. Remember Gretzky had his protectors and no one touched him until later in his career when they took his "goons" away.

zepplin92 02-08-2009 05:19 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
guys we gotta keep it in the game its exciting for the fans and the players, and besides im a leafs fan so i dont really gets the see championships or multible goal nights so let us have some form of excitment.

PS Next year were winning the CUP

maddrummr 02-08-2009 05:20 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
IN

Its part of the game. Most of the time its in control. Unlike fights in baseball that just get out of hand and unnecessary.

zzdrummer 02-08-2009 05:45 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amerrybrit (Post 537573)
In, fighting is allowed in hockey so that the players know they will face retribution if they try to cheap shot another player.you can cheap shot all you want, but you better have the guts to fight, because you will be challenged.

Todd Bertuzzi, anyone?

And to GD's list, I think that type of enforcer is dieing, you still have a few unskilled goons, Brashear Laraque, but there of plenty of skilled enforcers also, take two guys from my favorite team the Bruins. Milan Lucic and Shawn Thornton.

what the funk of it 02-08-2009 11:49 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
You have to admit there are way less goons in this post lockout era and they're on their way out. Even without these goons, it's a physical game and nothing's going to change that. Fights break out as soon as you're old enough to play full contact, it's the nature of the game.

Besides there are far worse things to worry about. Like head shots, and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IZdjNkUFvg

Long live Tie Domi!

michael drums 02-09-2009 12:00 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by what the funk of it (Post 538263)
You have to admit there are way less goons in this post lockout era and they're on their way out. Even without these goons, it's a physical game and nothing's going to change that. Fights break out as soon as you're old enough to play full contact, it's the nature of the game.

Besides there are far worse things to worry about. Like head shots, and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IZdjNkUFvg

Long live Tie Domi!

Absolutely!

When Zednick got his carotid artery slashed by that skate...it was probably THE most serious injury in NHL history.

WOW, that was horrible. I'll never forget that, man!


Uhhh....

Garvin 02-09-2009 12:22 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Also, without fighting, how else would people get to routinely beat the s*** out of Sydney Crosby? I mean c'mon, That dude needs to get slapped as often as possible!

Mr. Dyck 02-10-2009 11:52 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garvin (Post 538281)
Also, without fighting, how else would people get to routinely beat the s*** out of Sydney Crosby? I mean c'mon, That dude needs to get slapped as often as possible!

Man I so agree and I'd like to see Malkin take a few shots to the face too. It would be nice to see Ovechkin and Malkin go toe to toe. I think Alex would clean Evgeny's clock.

Garvin 02-11-2009 01:40 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Ovechkin's an animal. I feel bad for anyone who drops gloves with him...

michael drums 02-11-2009 01:49 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garvin (Post 539064)
Ovechkin's an animal. I feel bad for anyone who drops gloves with him...

Yep...


and not only that, he's THE best player in the NHL today!


Simple game! ;-)

FourOnSix 02-11-2009 02:16 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 537683)
Wanna bet?? here are some stats
Attachment 24466


Read this article about goons and what "they are paid to do"

I've been watching hockey for 50 years. You want to call them enforcers, OK. I'll call then goons.
http://ca.askmen.com/sports/business..._business.html

ok how many of those players are DEFENSEMEN. of course they aren't going to be scoring as many goals or assists as other players. Thier job is to rough up the other team and make it harder for them to score, not to score themselves. The reason Hockey, American Football, and Rugby are great sports is because they are incredibly physical games. Why ruin that and turn it into basketball on ice?

FourOnSix 02-11-2009 02:23 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garvin (Post 538281)
Also, without fighting, how else would people get to routinely beat the s*** out of Sydney Crosby? I mean c'mon, That dude needs to get slapped as often as possible!


agreed. 10,000%

i hate that little showoff

what the funk of it 02-11-2009 03:30 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FourOnSix (Post 539092)
agreed. 10,000%

i hate that little showoff

Jealous?

I'd love to see Malkin and Ovechkin duke it out. Word is they don't get along. If they get past that though, watch out 2010....

Garvin 02-11-2009 04:11 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
I don't hate Sidney Crosby, he's just really young and I think in trying to "find himself" in the NHL he has turned into a frustrated little kid, particularly this season. I think he has some growing up to do. He should look to some of the more experienced players to learn how to channel his frustration because he is not a fighter, he is a finesse guy. He's an awesome player, but he's not someone who should go around trying to defend himself against enforcers. I believe he's had a couple fights this year, and he's out of his element dropping gloves. He needs to grow up a little bit more before continuing to go around picking fights.

That said, I am a Red Wings fan. I just see the Penguins having trouble this season and feel bad for them. They have a bunch of great players, above average goaltending, but no on-ice leadership.

what the funk of it 02-11-2009 08:32 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garvin (Post 539304)
I don't hate Sidney Crosby, he's just really young and I think in trying to "find himself" in the NHL he has turned into a frustrated little kid, particularly this season. I think he has some growing up to do. He should look to some of the more experienced players to learn how to channel his frustration because he is not a fighter, he is a finesse guy. He's an awesome player, but he's not someone who should go around trying to defend himself against enforcers. I believe he's had a couple fights this year, and he's out of his element dropping gloves. He needs to grow up a little bit more before continuing to go around picking fights.

That said, I am a Red Wings fan. I just see the Penguins having trouble this season and feel bad for them. They have a bunch of great players, above average goaltending, but no on-ice leadership.


Good point. I like Crosby too. His relationship with mentor Mario Lemieux is an inspiring story as well. With that said, I have always thought he gained his position as Captain way too early. It was his second year in the N - Ridiculous. Dumb move Pens, they should have given it to Gary Roberts, he's been around the block a few times and has always shown great leadership.

I doubt the kid will ever give up his 'C', and this may just be the leadership problem you were talking about.

FourOnSix 02-14-2009 06:46 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by what the funk of it (Post 539275)
Jealous?

I'd love to see Malkin and Ovechkin duke it out. Word is they don't get along. If they get past that though, watch out 2010....

jealous? no

over-zealous about the flyers? probably

T.Underhill 02-14-2009 07:10 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
In. Stop making changes that further advance the pussification of America.

gusty 02-14-2009 07:11 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
i think fighting, in any situation, is just stupid...

T.Underhill 02-14-2009 07:42 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gusty (Post 540531)
i think fighting, in any situation, is just stupid...

Point taken. Can you hear me way up there??

GRUNTERSDAD 02-14-2009 02:29 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FourOnSix (Post 539087)
ok how many of those players are DEFENSEMEN. of course they aren't going to be scoring as many goals or assists as other players. Thier job is to rough up the other team and make it harder for them to score, not to score themselves. The reason Hockey, American Football, and Rugby are great sports is because they are incredibly physical games. Why ruin that and turn it into basketball on ice?

So you think that Olympic Hockey and College Hockey are basketball on ice.??
And have you ever watched a lacrosse game.??
And of course they are DEFENSEMEN. You don't think any team is going to have someone with skill fighting do you.

gusty 02-15-2009 10:20 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T.Underhill (Post 540537)
Point taken. Can you hear me way up there??

Only just ;)
2020202020

Mr. Dyck 02-15-2009 06:24 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 540574)
So you think that Olympic Hockey and College Hockey are basketball on ice.??
And have you ever watched a lacrosse game.??
And of course they are DEFENSEMEN. You don't think any team is going to have someone with skill fighting do you.

Jerome Iginla is one hell of a fighter and a 50 goal scorer, not to mention leader. Wendel Clark, great leader, goal scorer, fighter. Gordie Howe? Enough said.

GRUNTERSDAD 02-15-2009 08:03 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
30 teams, 25 players, 750 players and you mention 2. come on you can do better than that. Every situation has its exceptions and of course you found one,or two, but the fact remains that most fighting and goonsmanship comes from defensmen. The same mentality that likes hockey fights also slows down at car wrecks, and cheered as the Christians were fighting the lions. It's just a human thing, We haven't evolved quite far enough.

GRUNTERSDAD 02-15-2009 08:06 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T.Underhill (Post 540529)
In. Stop making changes that further advance the pussification of America.

There aren't that many Americans playing. Most of the chippyness started when the Europeans started playing and high-sticking everyone. Just like football there was a time when they played with no helmets. Things change.
Time to move on.

DrummerDavid 02-16-2009 10:18 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
In


2020202020202020

Mr. Dyck 02-18-2009 03:00 AM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
The Pittsburgh Penguins are terrible this year. Why? Because they got rid of all the toughness and fighters they had last year. They have no one to protect Crosby or Malkin and they're getting picked on and frustrated. Thay are a prime example why fighting should remain. I agree that most of the "meathead", cheapshot artists are defensemen but most fighters are wingers.
As for more leaders who also fight: Gary Roberts, Cam Neely, Mark Messier, Eric Lindross, Darcy Tucker, Shane Corson, Kirk Muller, the Sutters, even Mario in his younger days. Some of the best fights I've seen involved team leaders. Craig MacTavish and some poor shmuck that caught him on a bad day, Wendel Clark and Marty McSorely in the '93 playoffs, Mark Messier and some punk trying to make a name for himself.
If you take out fighting you might as well take hitting, take out Canadians and Americans and let the Euros ruin it all.
If anything should be taken out it should be the shootout because it takes away the team aspect of the sport.

Garvin 02-18-2009 02:37 PM

Re: Fighting in Hockey: In or Out
 
Mr. Dyck! Amen!!!

I hate the shootout! As a goalie especially, its hard for me to watch two teams play 60 minutes of great hockey plus 4 on 4 OT, and then have it all come down to something as non-team oriented as a shootout. I especially hate those 5 and 6 round shootouts. It just doesn't feel like a legitimate win to me.

I think I saw Boston and Columbus play earlier this year and end in a 1-0 shootout win after neither goalie allowed a single goal all night exept for one in the shootout. That was incredible from a goaltending stadpoint considering that they had each faced between 40-50 shots by the end of the night.


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