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-   -   What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45219)

darkstar442 12-20-2008 03:13 AM

What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Ok my and my friend were jamming out and he plays this gnarly classical lick but thats all he knows and i can play just a little egyptian thing so can you give me some in regular tunning

Tabs plz

Muffled Tom 12-20-2008 03:29 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
I've been hearing a lot about this amazing new thingy lately, it's called Google, supposedly it helps you find stuff you need on the "interwebs".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&f...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

darkstar442 12-20-2008 05:05 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
ha ha ha your so funny.. to bad i already searched it and there wasnt much to my liking!

Deathmetalconga 12-20-2008 05:31 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
My favorite Middle Eastern scale is Hijaz in the key of D. I have my Hang drum tuned to it. It's in a major scale, so it doesn't have a sad sound, but the spacing of the notes gives it a lot of tension.

Check it out:

D
Eb
F#
G
A
Bb
C
D

TheGroceryman 12-20-2008 03:36 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 516176)
My favorite Middle Eastern scale is Hijaz in the key of D. I have my Hang drum tuned to it. It's in a major scale, so it doesn't have a sad sound, but the spacing of the notes gives it a lot of tension.

Check it out:

D
Eb
F#
G
A
Bb
C
D

dude that sounds sweet! how did you find out about those?

darkstar442 12-23-2008 09:19 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
yea really its sick... how exactly do u find kool things like that and is there like a book of scales?

hauk 12-26-2008 04:20 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 516176)
My favorite Middle Eastern scale is Hijaz in the key of D. I have my Hang drum tuned to it. It's in a major scale, so it doesn't have a sad sound, but the spacing of the notes gives it a lot of tension.

Check it out:

D
Eb
F#
G
A
Bb
C
D

I like that one, except with the C raised a half step to a C#. It adds a little tension, a more exotic quality in my opinion. And that is the only Middle Eastern scale I know.

Deathmetalconga 12-27-2008 11:04 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hauk (Post 518586)
I like that one, except with the C raised a half step to a C#. It adds a little tension, a more exotic quality in my opinion. And that is the only Middle Eastern scale I know.

The sequence of notes for Hijaz from the tonic is
half augmented half whole half whole whole

The tension of the Hijaz scale exists between the augmented second and diminished third degree. The four through seventh degrees provide the resolution. If you augment the seventh degree, it would tend to conflict with the tonic when beginning the scale again, because you would have two augmented/half-step intervals of tension competing with each other. Try doing this up the keyboard and listen.

If you raise the seventh degree a half-step, you would have an augmented seventh and no longer have a Hijaz scale (also called a Phrygian dominant). If you showed up at a Jewish or Arabic jam session and raised the seventh degree of the scale like that, regardless of key, you wouldn't fit in.

caddywumpus 12-27-2008 04:25 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 516176)
My favorite Middle Eastern scale is Hijaz in the key of D. I have my Hang drum tuned to it. It's in a major scale, so it doesn't have a sad sound, but the spacing of the notes gives it a lot of tension.

Check it out:

D
Eb
F#
G
A
Bb
C
D

Actually, you can get a LOT of cool scales if you start the G harmonic minor scale on the other notes of the scale, too. My personal favorite is starting it on C:

C D Eb F# G A Bb C

I really started digging using the harmonic scale a lot a couple years ago. You can use this scale for just about anything to add an exotic flavor. As for the original post and replies, you can look up "scales" under google, and find scales that are not the 7 modes of the major scale. There are a ton out there! Good luck!

Deathmetalconga 12-27-2008 07:56 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by caddywumpus (Post 519154)
Actually, you can get a LOT of cool scales if you start the G harmonic minor scale on the other notes of the scale, too. My personal favorite is starting it on C:

C D Eb F# G A Bb C

I really started digging using the harmonic scale a lot a couple years ago. You can use this scale for just about anything to add an exotic flavor. As for the original post and replies, you can look up "scales" under google, and find scales that are not the 7 modes of the major scale. There are a ton out there! Good luck!

That sounds cool, but that's still Hijaz in D. You're just starting it on the C. The definining characteristic of the Phrygian dominant is a flattened second degree and a raised third degree. What you've written above shows a natural second, a flattened third and a flattened seventh, which could be a Dorian or Aeolian mode (I'm no theory expert so someone correct me if I'm wrong here). If you were playing with other people, you'd need to explain this to them to avoid confusion.

Hijaz in C would be:

C - Db - E - F - G - Ab - Bb - C

Of course, you can play any sequence of notes you like and make up "scales" of your own. But if one wants to play melodically with other people (I presume that's what the original poster was asking), one needs to stick to understood modal structures.

nzyme 08-19-2009 03:44 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 519084)
If you raise the seventh degree a half-step, you would have an augmented seventh and no longer have a Hijaz scale (also called a Phrygian dominant). If you showed up at a Jewish or Arabic jam session and raised the seventh degree of the scale like that, regardless of key, you wouldn't fit in.

Actually, if you raise the seventh, you have a Hijaz Kiar mode/scale, which is also quite popular, possibly used as much as a straight Hijaz.

freebirdgdw 08-19-2009 03:52 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
I've got one, it's called the (get ready for it)...

...'Blues' scale.

Yeah, I went there.

caddywumpus 08-19-2009 06:22 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 519210)
That sounds cool, but that's still Hijaz in D.

We could argue in circles about this. Hijaz in D is the same notes as starting the G harmonic minor scale on the 5th degree. Sure, every single mode of the Hijaz OR harmonic minor scale is cool, and can be used in reference to whatever key you're in.

I was trying to point out that every scale has several ways of looking at it and using it, and by looking at them different ways, you can come up with even more scales and colors to play around with...

Deathmetalconga 08-19-2009 06:28 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nzyme (Post 604633)
Actually, if you raise the seventh, you have a Hijaz Kiar mode/scale, which is also quite popular, possibly used as much as a straight Hijaz.

Indeed you are correct. I looked in my copy of "Arabic Musical Scales: Basic Maqam Teachings" by Cameron Powers and he calls this Shenhaz, a member of the Hijaz family of scales.

This is fairly esoteric knowledge around here. How do you know this?

aydee 08-19-2009 06:28 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Know nothing of Egyptian scales, but here a cool raga based one:

E, F, Ab, A, B, B#, Eb, E

Deathmetalconga 08-19-2009 06:36 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by caddywumpus (Post 604683)
We could argue in circles about this. Hijaz in D is the same notes as starting the G harmonic minor scale on the 5th degree. Sure, every single mode of the Hijaz OR harmonic minor scale is cool, and can be used in reference to whatever key you're in.

I was trying to point out that every scale has several ways of looking at it and using it, and by looking at them different ways, you can come up with even more scales and colors to play around with...

Yeah, I see your point. I guess just about any scale could be viewed as part of some other scale in some other key, just started in some other place. It is cool to reconceptualize things and that will probably lead to some insights and inspiration and cool melodies. For the more mundane purposes of following music and playing with people, however, you need a common reference point.

caddywumpus 08-19-2009 06:38 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 604687)
Yeah, I see your point. I guess just about any scale could be viewed as part of some other scale in some other key, just started in some other place. It is cool to reconceptualize things and that will probably lead to some insights and inspiration and cool melodies. For the more mundane purposes of following music and playing with people, however, you need a common reference point.

Absolutely! And when you deviate from those reference points, THAT'S when you start turning even the musicians' heads...

Pollyanna 08-19-2009 06:40 AM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
In '87 I wrote a simple song based on a harmonic minor (forgot which one :)

http://sangrea.net/rijidij/mp3/Grea-...-guitar%29.mp3

While every key has its own character, a harmonic minor scale in any key will give you that exotic eastern flavour because of the minor third interval:

http://www.jazclass.aust.com/scales/scahar.htm

asht89 08-19-2009 12:45 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
The only two Egyptian & Classical sounding scales I ever use on guitar are the Harmonic Minor and the Phrygian Dominant scale. Throw them in Google and you will get loads of sites with positions, etc. Unless you're focussing solely in that sort of genre, you wont ever really need to use any more, but I guess knowledge is power, and all that jazz.

Check out

http://www.jazzguitar.be/exotic_guitar_scales.html

there are quite a few scales on there that should help.

Deathmetalconga 08-19-2009 09:43 PM

Re: What are some Egyptian and Classical Guitar scales
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by caddywumpus (Post 604688)
Absolutely! And when you deviate from those reference points, THAT'S when you start turning even the musicians' heads...

Yes, deviating from those established places is where the spark of originality and creativity is kindled - assuming one knows the rules well enough to break them, and is playing with people at the same level. Otherwise, the head-turning will be for the wrong reasons.For example, if you whipped out a Hijaz scale to someone who had never heard of it - and had no particular desire to play in it - the results wouldn't be so grand. With the right people, though, you could take it farther and make some mindblowing music.


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