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-   -   Musician abuse? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33785)

anson89 12-19-2007 03:59 AM

Musician abuse?
 
I've been playing in church for about 4 years now.
I grew up in a very contemporary, united and "youthy" church, which also means we play our songs loud (in a good way) and powerful, ranging from Hillsong to Planetshakers stuff.
After moving in to the US (I'm from Malaysia), my cousin pulled me in to a more conservative church and things begin to change.
I joined the worship team, the worship leaders love me cause of my energy in drumming and my ideas and song arrangements in changing old songs to a more upbeat playing, but from some of the congregation I get responses like tone down, you're overpowering and recently a threatening comment like "if you add more fancy stuff and don't keep it simple, I will change you to congas."
What even pissed me more was one of the audio dudes pulled up a drum shield, puts it in front me in the middle of the worship service, everyone started laughing and I just lost all my spirit playing.
Due to these, I had to change to smaller sticks or hot rods and have to really tone and control myself and resulting in loss of feel of playing and not concentrating on the music and worship but instead, my playing.
Any comments? I wanna hear your experiences.

aydee 12-19-2007 04:05 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I dont know, bud, If there are many people reacting the same way to your playing, is there a chance it is too loud?

I'd suggest ask someone whos opinion you respect, if they think its too busy or too loud first.

anson89 12-19-2007 04:08 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Well, I've asked my worship team leader before, he said it's fine, it's a good way to bring the hype up in the music. But, I guess it's a different view from the crowd itself. If I tone down, worship leader gets pissed because he himself can't feel that energy.

aydee 12-19-2007 04:11 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I hope the worship leader decides if you play the congas or not..: )

anson89 12-19-2007 04:12 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 389592)
I hope the worship leader decides if you play the congas or not..: )

lol
i hope so and I can at least drop out and start attending Lakewood Church

maddrummr 12-19-2007 04:12 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Well of course I would be offended if someone told me to stop playing how I've been playing for years and years. BUT on the other side, being a great drummer requires a lot of diversity in style and application of your skills.

Now if I were in your position, I would listen and quiet down for a little. I would learn to play quiet and then add in some fancy stuff. But, don't get to excited and let yourself go. If you can keep the fancy stuff under control I'm sure your director would be fine with it.

anson89 12-19-2007 04:16 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddrummr (Post 389595)
Well of course I would be offended if someone told me to stop playing how I've been playing for years and years. BUT on the other side, being a great drummer requires a lot of diversity in style and application of your skills.

Now if I were in your position, I would listen and quiet down for a little. I would learn to play quiet and then add in some fancy stuff. But, don't get to excited and let yourself go. If you can keep the fancy stuff under control I'm sure your director would be fine with it.

yeah that is true
in fact, I've actually considered doing that before, but sometimes it's unfair when you have thoughts like that, "why can't this church be like that church?" or "I wanna bring this dead crowd to its feet". you know what I mean? so it's kinda hard to adjust from there.

drummerchick435 12-19-2007 04:32 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I know how you feel. I play in church too, and about 40% of the time I get yelled at for playing too complicated stuff, but the other 60% of the stuff I am doing is perfect.

Pinner 12-19-2007 04:32 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anson89 (Post 389593)
lol
i hope so and I can at least drop out and start attending Lakewood Church

Oh is that the one on TV if so get on their worship team. You have to go where you can worship and still love playing. In CA most of the Calvary Chapels like the Costa Mesa one where Stryper used to play welcome loud spirited music. If you are not happy maybe it is not the right place for you.
Pinner

The Ploughman 12-19-2007 06:04 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Ive played in a worship setting for over 30 years. In gospel groups, in worship teams, in churches, in other non church yet religious music type functions, and for religious entertainment at weddings, parties, and other functions.

Different gigs, even with the same basic music require different things. Recently we played a fairly big outdoor (big for us) several hundred people benefit, I took my Ayotte Custom 22-12-14-16 with snare, 2oo2 cymbals, it was fully sound reinforced, drumkit fully miked up, and everything was fairly loud. A couple weeks later, I played a retirement home with pretty much the same set list........ and had a snare and brushes.

Theres a lot you arent saying. And much you are saying. Like the "Im gonna move you to congas" kind of important where that came from. What made it a legitimate threat? And for a sound shield to suddenly appear in the middle of a service, was grossly disruptive and could not have possibly been warranted under any circumstances. Unless you have been repeatedly warned that would happen as a last resort. So I dont know what to make of it all.

This is what I know from my playing experience. You as a musician arent necessary at all for worship. This is something that seems to be missed by the majority of musicians and praise teams and praise team leaders at work in religious music today. Worship is a corporate experience for the congregation. Its not a concert opportunity for the Worship Team. Worship can and will happen without any music, without anything at all except people who come together to Worship. People who have no musical experience and cant even carry a tune can lead worship, because that is something that comes out of the heart, not an amp, not a music degree, and doesnt neeed anything except the heart praising God for it to happen. Theres some stuff in the new testament about how gifts are given by the holy spirit, for the development of the brethren, the edification not of self, but of the church. Who we are and what we do becomes secondary in that, and just as much as we are to worship God with our talents, we are also to edify those around us with our gifts, so that their worship experience is as enjoyable as our own. "In honor, preferring one another" ......... you can find that in your KJV.

Hope tis helps.
Good luck. Merry christmas.

burnthehero 12-19-2007 06:48 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Seems to me like you have a bad attitude and you're not looking at the big picture. It's not about you. It's about the production as a whole. If you're playing too loud and people are noticing, good for them. That means you need to play softer and let the other instruments speak. How you used to play is irrelevant now. Maybe putting the shield in front of you during a service was a little harsh, but from the sound of it, you gave them no other option.

I played in the worship band all through high school and was always being told to play softer. Of course I took it the wrong way and held a grudge. But I was young and just wanted to be heard. As I've gotten older I've come to understand the concept of an ensemble. I'd suggest listening to your band leader.

rendezvous_drummer 12-19-2007 07:49 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Go with it. Chances are you are playing too loud. Tone it down. A good drummer is a diverse drummer. Not only must you know how to play loud, but at other levels as well. A good drummer can do that. I've played in venues where I had to play very quietly and very loud. Go with what is needed.

TedTheDrumGuy 12-19-2007 10:11 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Wow, that's a bummer, man.
I see this all the time at work, I can't even get shields for customers, that I can tell.
My first band was a worship band, and I was probably 14? I saw it as a challenge, to play quietly, but still find the pocket. It really opens up a whole new dynamic sense.
It's truly unfortunate that the congregation laughed, though. :( That's inappropriate.
Well, I hope that helps!
Take care, Ted

DamoSyzygy 12-19-2007 03:18 PM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Part of the challenge of being a good drummer is learning to be versatile so that you can give the song what it requires.

If you feel that the playing you need to do isnt 'your style' then use it as an opportunity to learn and broaden your style.

When youre in a gig environment, its about whats best for the overrall sound. Try to think 'group' rather than just 'drummer'.

drumr0 12-19-2007 04:54 PM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Many posters are stating that you need to work on your diversity, and that is very true. You are in a different church with different people who may or may not like your style. I have been the "church drummer" in a few churches and have subbed at many more. I have learned that playing quietly usually works best. I have never heard any complaints when I get fancy or do something "out of the box" as long as I keep it tasteful and quiet.

The Ploughman really nailed it. Music is not a necessity for worship. You should probably feel privileged just to have the opportunity to share your talents with this church. So try to be open minded to what the church needs from you and honor that.

Mostly PRAY!! Get close to God and see what direction He wants you to go. If it is another church, then so be it. God has a place for you, He may be honing your skills to get you where you need to be.

Skacatz 12-19-2007 05:24 PM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I've played in my church for a long time. Sometimes you just have to go along to get along. If the congregation doesn't want loud then simply tone down a bit. You are there to contribute your talent and not to stick out like a sore thumb. You just need to kind of roll with it and be flexible. Just have a good time. Some of the things you mention you will have a different perspective on as you get a little older. For now just try to relax and keep those youthful hormones in check.

Ruok 12-21-2007 02:16 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I have the opposite problem of being loud when I play in my church. I'm too soft and wimpy at times and I have been told many times that the drums could hardly be heard.

I've been rebuked by the keyboardist for not playing loud enough and for not putting in enough fills. But, the acoustics in my church are awful and the soundboard guys don't really have a good knowledge of what to listen for in the drums (I try to communicate nicely what to listen for in the monitors). Even though the drum kit is totally miked, sometimes the soundboard person actually has me completely muted and doesn't even realize it until the service is over. In cases like that only people near the front actually can hear the drums. So, it isn't always my fault that I can't be heard.

Needless to say, I'm working on trying to play louder. I've already got the low volume thing down for the most part.

The Ploughman 12-21-2007 03:02 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I am thinking that somewhere, on some forum.......... theres a whole crowd of real sound men complaining about the lack of respect for their craft by leadership in churches, about how a church will pick any idiot who is so untalented he cant even clean toilets and put him on the soundboard so he feels he is important. Theres just gotta be. As for idiots on church sound boards............ theres a lot of them. They have no concept of the equipment they are on, the equipment they are servicing, how to make a good sound mix etc etc etc.


Theres gotta be.

Ruok 12-28-2007 01:13 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ploughman (Post 390355)
I am thinking that somewhere, on some forum.......... theres a whole crowd of real sound men complaining about the lack of respect for their craft by leadership in churches, about how a church will pick any idiot who is so untalented he cant even clean toilets and put him on the soundboard so he feels he is important. Theres just gotta be. As for idiots on church sound boards............ theres a lot of them. They have no concept of the equipment they are on, the equipment they are servicing, how to make a good sound mix etc etc etc.


Theres gotta be.

I meant to respond to your post days ago because it gave me a good laugh. Very funny and probably true. ;)

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ 12-28-2007 04:21 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
You should have respect for the other band members playing with you for sure. It's not just about what you want to play. However, in the end, you can only be yourself. Maybe this is just not the right group for you.

If your worship leader is really interested in what you can add to the service, perhaps you can have this person talk to the other band members. However, you should be willing to compromise a little and try things you haven't done before as well. What's the worst that can happen? You decide you don't like playing that style and move on. If you like it, well add it to your bag of tricks. :)

svkelleher10 12-28-2007 05:05 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
You gotta share the spotlight with fellow musicians. However, the drum shield in the middle of a performance was disrespectful to you. He should've done that before mass started. Just play simple when at church, and play however damn loud you want at home or at the studio.

jay norem 12-28-2007 08:35 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I never played the drums in a church. Never really thought about it. I guess if you're going to play in church that would mean that the "music" is secondary to the main purpose for everyone being there. Is there any bread in playing at churches? Anyway, it seems sort of counter-intuitive to me, playing drums in a church. But if that's what you want to do, it seems like the preacher or whoever would be the one calling the shots, and I would doubt that he'd care too much about what the drummer was thinking.

Muffled Tom 12-31-2007 12:17 PM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I play in my school's Big Band, and sometimes I'll break out with really fast low-tom 16th note fills during something like Sam's Boogie and that always makes the band leader look at me and kinda roll his eyes and shrug it off; but I do this only during practices. I always do what he tells me during gigs, and that's what you should do too; you're not a solo drummer, nor are you a drummer in a rock band. Different situations require different playing.

Although everyone above me has said that already ;p

Big_Philly 01-01-2008 06:00 PM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
I know what it's like. It probably wouldn't do harm to quiet down, but do express your frustrations and tell people why you play the way you play. Also, get used to it. As a drummer you're too loud, whether you actually are loud or not (at least in my experience).

bojangleman 01-03-2008 01:59 AM

Re: Musician abuse?
 
just be glad you can play drums in church :p. me and my dad play guitar in my church, and one time i brought my electric to church, had it on clean and i got yelled at. which, it is baptist..so change is everything..lol...but i would die to play drums in church..and hopefully you dont, but if ya get kicked off the set..beat the crap out of the bongos and overpower the set itself..lol

Alex


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