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Deltadrummer 11-12-2007 05:10 PM

the bad plus
 
I was in Virgin the other day and I heard this band, The Bad Plus. They do covers of all types of music for piano trio. On their new album Prog, they do a cover of Tom Sawyer that is certainly worth a listen.

sio_13 11-12-2007 05:35 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
I, for one, will check em out... good heads up

aydee 11-12-2007 05:54 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
Tom Sawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtdNtU9gAj0

When the levee breaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ9XGcp2FK8

Its a detoxification of sorts...

Deltadrummer 11-12-2007 06:12 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
thanks, Aydee!!!!!!!!

tajtonic 11-12-2007 07:09 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
oh my god those guys are killer.

Spreggy 11-12-2007 07:22 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
Physical Cites is my fave on the disc. The whole thing is a great listen.

Garvin 11-12-2007 08:23 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
I haven't heard the new album yet, but if you like Dave King's drumming, check out the old band he was in Happy Apple. Really great stuff there as well, but I'm not sure how close it is to the newer stuff.

Steamer 11-12-2007 08:28 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
The Bad Plus are a wonderful breath of fresh air on the music scene. Saw them live finally for the first time during this years Vancouver International Jazz Festival doing a opening slot for the so called but I won't name headliners that they completely blew the socks off. David King is one fine complete musician and a very creative and original drummer.

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ 11-13-2007 01:02 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
I like these guys. My band mates introduced me to them a while back.

Tuxido 11-13-2007 03:24 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
My favorite groupe, I love what they do.
They do music, theyre not trying to do a genre .
Also, david king is a very good drummer, very entertaining to watch and listen.
THE BAD PLUS



An other band to check out is Hiromi Uehara's groupe

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 12:16 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
I just checked them out a few minutes ago. Wow, very impressive. I'll have to get the latest CD.

stasz 11-14-2007 04:40 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
I picked up two albums of these guys not too long ago and I'm thoroughly impressed. Should be a picture of them in the dictionary under "virtuosity". However I have to complain-- I get a little tired of the section in each song where everyone in the band is showing off that virtuosity to the full extent, almost too much. I can admit really love the feel that they create in their music and I absolutely love the cover interpretations. I would like to get the chance to see them live as well.

Steamer 11-14-2007 05:30 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Here's one of my favorite current clips of The Bad Plus. African tribal drumming meets modern trio ensemble playing. Killer 6/4 groove. Love these guys!.:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=lb-bJlxXDbs

harryconway 11-14-2007 05:49 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 378198)
Killer 6/4 groove.

Sure it's not 12 measures of 1/8?

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 06:05 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
6/4? Why do I feel like it's 6/8? I feel more comfortable counting 12356 123456 vs. 1 2 3 4 5 6 although it resolves both ways.

Steamer 11-14-2007 06:32 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums (Post 378216)
6/4? Why do I feel like it's 6/8? I feel more comfortable counting 12356 123456 vs. 1 2 3 4 5 6 although it resolves both ways.

This one threw me for a spin the first time I heard it but it's clearly a 6/4 eight note flow cycle groove with the back beat on the beats of 2,4 and 6 of each bar. The hypnotic acoustic bass pattern they use later on the beats of 1 and 2 and the ands of 4 and 5 really ties the rhythmic cycle together. Love that displaced rhythmic break they play too makes me laugh every time I hear it.

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 06:40 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 378224)
This one threw me for a spin the first time I heard it bit it's clearly a 6/4 eight note flow cycle groove with the back beat on the beats of 2,4 and 6 of each bar. The hypnotic acoustic bass pattern they use later on the beats of 1 and 2 and the ands of 4 and 5 really ties the rhythmic cycle together. Love that displaced rhythmic break they play too makes me laugh every time I hear it.

I understand it now, but this is what confuses me about odd time signatures. I can never tell which note gets the beat when I hear a piece of music.

Steamer 11-14-2007 06:51 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums (Post 378229)
I understand it now, but this is what confuses me about odd time signatures. I can never tell which note gets the beat when I hear a piece of music.


Understood. What I do is try to first hear the cycle of beats then the "clave" as the say in latin music which in this case is coming from the bass players line then understand the time signature and feel based off that subdivision. Dave Holland is the absolute master of this method of feeling and understanding odd time feels and no matter how out it gets you always hear the internal rhythmic cycle or "clave" and never get lost.

aydee 11-14-2007 06:52 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Stan, that is'nt Brubeck on the Piano is it? ; )

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 06:57 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 378231)
Understood. What I do is try to first hear the cycle of beats then the "clave" as the say in latin music which in this case is coming from the bass players line then understand the time signature and feel based off that subdivision. Dave Holland is the absolute master of this method of feeling and understanding odd time feels and no matter how out it gets you always hear the internal rhythmic cycle or "clave" and never get lost.

Could you explain that a bit more? I still don't quite understand how to determine if it's the quarter note or the eight note that gets the beat.

Steamer 11-14-2007 06:58 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aydee (Post 378232)
Stan, that is'nt Brubeck on the Piano is it? ; )

Ethan Iverson on piano,David King on drums and Reid Anderson on bass to be exact aydee make up The Bad Plus.

Steamer 11-14-2007 07:05 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums (Post 378234)
Could you explain that a bit more? I still don't quite understand how to determine if it's the quarter note or the eight note that gets the beat.


The drum part has a very defined 1/8th note flow with the syncopated accent on the beats of 2,4 and 6 of each measure combined with the bass line with a variations of beat placements on 1 and 2 and ands of 4 and 5 of a 6/4 bar in it's rhythmic cycle. Very African like in influence. Understanding the pattern of the bass in the 1/8th note flow locks in the groove and gives you the "clave" so to speak to let you know where your home base always is.

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 07:14 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 378238)
The drum part has a very defined 1/8th note flow with the syncopated accent on the beats of 2,4 and 6 of each measure combined with the bass line with a variations of beat placements on 1 and 2 and ands of 4 and 5 of a 6/4 bar in it's rhythmic cycle. Very African like in influence. Understanding the pattern of the bass in the 1/8th note flow locks in the groove and gives you the "clave" so to speak to let you know where your home base always is.

Man I'm getting a headache *lol* If the drum part is in an 1/8th note pulse, that's what confuses me as to why it's not 6/8.

Trying to understand this a bit more I went and looked up a song I know is in a particular time signature. Money by Pink Floyd which I was always told and always counted as 7/8, but half the people I find on the net say 7/8 and the other half say it's in 7/4.

Steamer 11-14-2007 07:30 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums (Post 378241)
Man I'm getting a headache *lol* If the drum part is in an 1/8th note pulse, that's what confuses me as to why it's not 6/8.

Trying to understand this a bit more I went and looked up a song I know is in a particular time signature. Money by Pink Floyd which I was always told and always counted as 7/8, but half the people I find on the net say 7/8 and the other half say it's in 7/4.

Best to think about it in terms of 1+2+ 3+ 4+5+6+ with the backbeat on beats 2,4 and 6 with the bass drum on 1 and the + of 2 of a 6/4 measure with a 1/8th note flow on the high hat drum part wise. Now count 6 sets of eights and hear the bass line which they simplify later on the beats on 1 and 2 then the + of 4 and + of 5 repeated in a 6 beat 1/8th note cycle. This is the way all there parts line up that's the best way to go about hearing and "feeling" it.

If you thinks this a brain exercise try some South Indian rhythmic cycles,yikes!.

Oh to answer your other question 6/8 is felt in a 3 beat division cycles just like 9/8 or 12/8. This piece is clearly broken up in a set of 6 groups of 2 1/8th notes per quarter note feel making up a bar of 6/4 time.

Erik Lund 11-14-2007 08:03 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Fourstrings - with that piece "Anthem for the Enthused" forget counting out 6 and think "3". Much easier to groove on. As far as odd times go, if you can make it easier on yourself, do it. No need to be counting out 1+2+3+4+5+6+ to know where you are. Also frees up your time/playing if you so desire.

Personally I don't hear any "african tribal" whatnot...


Another cover these guys did, but most here probably wouldn't know is "Street Woman" on their first album "Give" - it's an Ornette Coleman song off his album "Science Fiction" which is amazing (Get the Complete Science Fiction Session album - "What Reason Could I Give" is beautiful)

Well, it's a jazz tune, so maybe "Cover" isn't the word - but hell, I don't see anyone else doing Street Woman, so I'm calling it a cover. The Bad Plus play it amazingly - one of my favorite tracks they've done.

I'm glad Reid is in this band. I've seen him live many times, sometimes in his own groups as a leader, and always thought he was really good, but wasn't in the "right" setting. Rockin' it now.

Steamer 11-14-2007 08:23 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Lund (Post 378251)
Fourstrings - with that piece "Anthem for the Enthused" forget counting out 6 and think "3". Much easier to groove on. As far as odd times go, if you can make it easier on yourself, do it. No need to be counting out 1+2+3+4+5+6+ to know where you are. Also frees up your time/playing if you so desire.

Personally I don't hear any "african tribal" whatnot...


.

Well the drum parts clearly states a 6/4 feel based on 1/8th note flow if you want to hear it in a slow 3 you could do that too as long as it all lines up in the end. But just like in African rhythms you can hear it in different ways and it can meet at the same point. I studied West African drumming for several years and your "ear can hear rhythmic cycles and divisions and layering of rhythms in many different ways is one of the most important things I learned along with several other things.


The African influence comes from the tension and release of layering rhythmic lines over rhythmic lines and the use of syncopation clearly evident in the bass line in this piece which is the way I hear it which is what this piece is all about RHYTHM and GROOVE.

Erik Lund 11-14-2007 08:36 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer (Post 378258)
Well the drum parts clearly states a 6/4 feel based on 1/8th note flow if you want to hear it in a slow 3 you could do that too as long as it all lines up in the end. But just like in African rhythms you can hear it in different ways and it can meet at the same point. I studied West African drumming for several years and your "ear can hear rhythmic cycles and divisions and layering of rhythms in many different ways is one of the most important things I learned along with several other things.


The African influence comes from the tension and release of layering rhythmic lines over rhythmic lines and the use of syncopation clearly evident in the bass line in this piece which is the way I hear it which is what this piece is all about RHYTHM and GROOVE.

It *does* line up in the end - and is much easier to feel/understand so I suggested it to our friend fourstrings, who was having aneurisms with all the time signature talk.

I'm starting to get done with the word "influence" for the most part, since a lot of bands in popular music do what you're talking about with the rhythm and I doubt they're saying "let's do it like that african music we heard the other day". That and a bunch of other stuff. (I saw, for the first time, Dave using a splash on his snare, which I do a lot, and although he's recording/etc, I wasn't influenced by him or anyone else into doing it. I just thought "Hey look, he does it too. Neat.")


Most musicologists say that music in the future is all about rhythm and textures, as the atonal musics and gamalean and microtonal stuff have pretty much covered the tonal range. I guess I should say "popular music" there. Maybe someday Joe Maneri's microtonal work will be brought into a boyband but I doubt it.


Anyway - you're not going to change my stubborn and steadfastly correct mind on any of this. Just wanted to give fourstrings a simpler way of looking at the world.

Steamer 11-14-2007 08:46 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
Each to his own I guess Eric. If a student came to me me wanting to understand this type of feel and rhythmic cycle I would go about it in the way i've stated here and would also make him sing or clap the bass line to get a better grasp of what to hold on to.

Everyone has a different approach that's what makes the world such an interesting place.

Erik Lund 11-14-2007 09:16 AM

Re: the bad plus
 
no worries, Cteamer.

fourstringdrums 11-14-2007 03:52 PM

Re: the bad plus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Lund (Post 378262)
It *does* line up in the end - and is much easier to feel/understand so I suggested it to our friend fourstrings, who was having aneurisms with all the time signature talk.

*lol* Not quite an Aneurysm, but close! I actually had a dream about this last night and I still woke up confused.

Counting it in 6 isn't my problem, it was just understanding in general where you make the call if something is in 5/4 or 5/8, 7/4 or 7/8 (like the "Money" debate I keep reading about), 6/4 or 6/8 etc.. I suppose if I were to transcribe something then the way I divide the phrases on the page would then dictate, but just for the ability of being able to hear a piece of music and tell a student what what it is in for certain, I'm a bit lost. I can tell them it's in 5, 6 or 7, or even 11, but I'd hate to say that it's 7/8 when it's really 7/4.

For example, their first song on the MySpace page "Giant" I would tell someone that the main groove is in 7/8 and 11/8, but now I have doubts that I'm actually right.

http://www.myspace.com/badplus


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