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-   -   Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating! (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140511)

camondrums 02-09-2018 06:11 PM

Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9U2...AQKXOgZ4AaABAg

A discussion about drum triggers. Drummers who use triggers are cheating... Wait, WHAT!? Why are people so adamant and quick to say this? Thatís a pretty bold statement. Join me in discussion as I go over the reasons why Triggering is NOT cheating.

MrPockets 02-09-2018 06:13 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/.../945/D6PfW.jpg

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 06:27 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545971)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9U2...AQKXOgZ4AaABAg

A discussion about drum triggers. Drummers who use triggers are cheating... Wait, WHAT!? Why are people so adamant and quick to say this? Thatís a pretty bold statement. Join me in discussion as I go over the reasons why Triggering is NOT cheating.

Cheating who? What measuring stick are we using? Is programming drums "cheating"? Is using a studio drummer instead of tracking yourself cheating? Is punching in cheating? Is putting together different takes into one cheating?

Macarina 02-09-2018 06:39 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
That sounds like an old man knee jerk statement... and I'm a old man... and I don't get what is being 'cheated'.

TheElectricCompany 02-09-2018 06:39 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Not cheating, but lame.

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:05 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1545974)
Cheating who? What measuring stick are we using? Is programming drums "cheating"? Is using a studio drummer instead of tracking yourself cheating? Is punching in cheating? Is putting together different takes into one cheating?

Watch the video, and you'll understand what i'm talking about. :)

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:05 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany (Post 1545977)
Not cheating, but lame.

To each their own! You definitely wont hear triggered kick drums in a jazz or blues band. Then again, i've been wrong before!

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:06 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Macarina (Post 1545976)
That sounds like an old man knee jerk statement... and I'm a old man... and I don't get what is being 'cheated'.

Click the link to the video.

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:07 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPockets (Post 1545973)

hahahaha If you think I look like this man, then i'll take the compliment.

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 07:19 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545979)
Watch the video, and you'll understand what i'm talking about. :)

My bad. The post indicated you wanted to have a discussion, but maybe it's more about driving video views. Regardless, at least you're here sort of responding instead of taking off after posting the link.

If you want to convince yourself that triggers are the same thing as playing acoustically, go for it. I think in the very worst case, the only person you might ever cheat is yourself. For the listener, only the end result matters.

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:22 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1545984)
My bad. The post indicated you wanted to have a discussion, but maybe it's more about driving video views. Regardless, at least you're here sort of responding instead of taking off after posting the link.

If you want to convince yourself that triggers are the same thing as playing acoustically, go for it. I think in the very worst case, the only person you might ever cheat is yourself. For the listener, only the end result matters.

Well in a sense i'd like all drummers opinions on all platform. Thus is why I like posting in here, because I know i'll get some educated answers.

I like to think of using triggers as a tool to enhance your drumming. Its definitely not the same thing as playing acoustically, and it definitely helps in a live setting. Especially when you're drumming in a metal band. (Guitarists hate turning down their amps).

hippy chip 02-09-2018 07:23 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Maybe that is the problem---somehow us OLD GUYS managed to make music without all the electronic gadgets---and don't feel like we need them!

https://i.imgur.com/IpSN0yel.jpg

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 07:31 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545986)
I like to think of using triggers as a tool to enhance your drumming.

Right, and certain athletes like to think that blood doping or steroids is a tool to enhance their performance.

Quote:

Its definitely not the same thing as playing acoustically, and it definitely helps in a live setting.
Helps if you have a problem with consistency and volume in your acoustic playing anyway. If you were actually playing with the consistency you wanted, the trigger wouldn't be required. In studio they're commonly used to help line things to grid or layer samples but in a live setting, it's usually to compensate for some type of sound or player shortcoming.

Quote:

Especially when you're drumming in a metal band. (Guitarists hate turning down their amps).
In the days before triggers were common, people just used skill and microphones. Triggers are a crutch that assist for you, a little cheat of sorts to make your end goal easier to attain. I don't really see as much a problem with this little cheat as long as it still sounds good... Which if I'm personally honest, it commonly doesn't sound so good.

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:32 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy chip (Post 1545987)
Maybe that is the problem---somehow us OLD GUYS managed to make music without all the electronic gadgets---and don't feel like we need them!

https://i.imgur.com/IpSN0yel.jpg

Firstly, SICK beard.
Secondly, there are lots of old guys out there who used electronics and samples in their drumming.

It may be more of a personal preference.

camondrums 02-09-2018 07:34 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1545989)
Right, and certain athletes like to think that blood doping or steroids is a tool to enhance their performance.

Helps if you have a problem with consistency and volume in your acoustic playing anyway. If you were actually playing with the consistency you wanted, the trigger wouldn't be required. In studio they're commonly used to help line things to grid or layer samples but in a live setting, it's usually to compensate for some type of sound or player shortcoming.

In the days before triggers were common, people just used skill and microphones. Triggers are a crutch that assist for you, a little cheat of sorts to make your end goal easier to attain. I don't really see as much a problem with this little cheat as long as it still sounds good... Which if I'm personally honest, it commonly doesn't sound so good.


I can assure you that I can play all my parts acoustically without triggers. Sure you may not have ever had the need to use them. But then again, what kind of music are you playing on drums, and do you have any videos? :)

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 07:49 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545991)
I can assure you that I can play all my parts acoustically without triggers.

Okay then. What need is there for the trigger unless you're triggering weird sounds? Is it or is it not to enhance the consistency and audibility of your notes? Why not just use a mic setup if you've got no problem playing your parts at good/consistent volume all night?

Quote:

Sure you may not have ever had the need to use them. But then again, what kind of music are you playing on drums, and do you have any videos? :)
That's true, I don't need to use them. Even when I play stuff that's real heavy, I see no need to play the drums faster than naturally sounds good. The cases where triggers are required so that you can actually hear anything are a small but valid niche, and I don't think it's required to convince yourself that you're not utilizing a bit of a cheat to get to your end goal.

Perhaps "artificial enhancement tool" is a better term for you than "cheat"?

hippy chip 02-09-2018 08:14 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
The first thing you have to consider is if you think screaming to 260 bpm blast beats is musical---to me it is not!

camondrums 02-09-2018 08:23 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1545994)
Okay then. What need is there for the trigger unless you're triggering weird sounds? Is it or is it not to enhance the consistency and audibility of your notes? Why not just use a mic setup if you've got no problem playing your parts at good/consistent volume all night?

That's true, I don't need to use them. Even when I play stuff that's real heavy, I see no need to play the drums faster than naturally sounds good. The cases where triggers are required so that you can actually hear anything are a small but valid niche, and I don't think it's required to convince yourself that you're not utilizing a bit of a cheat to get to your end goal.

Perhaps "artificial enhancement tool" is a better term for you than "cheat"?


Just wondering if you actually watched the video? Regardless i'll explain it here. Anyway, one of the bands I toured with had guitar players who played 8 string guitars. Naturally the tonal range the guitars play in eat up the sound of my acoustic bass drum. The reason I used the trigger was to help it stand out in all of that "mud".

Also, I think its difficult to form an opinion on something you've never used. :)

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 08:41 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545998)
Just wondering if you actually watched the video?

No. It's pretty clear to me you're trying to drive youtube views by putting all these posts in the form of "click this link to see my thoughts on the subject I just opened a discussion forum thread for". I'm not really into that and though I like having discussions, I don't like sitting through videos to hear someone's thoughts I could have read in about 10 seconds.

Quote:

Regardless i'll explain it here. Anyway, one of the bands I toured with had guitar players who played 8 string guitars.
My main band has the same. 8 and 9 strings tuned even lower than usual. I have zero issue getting my bass drum notes heard. I use a 24 kick and don't fill it full of laundry. I also see zero need to play strings of bass drum notes so close together they sound like farts and need triggers to be audible. Personal preference.

Quote:

Naturally the tonal range the guitars play in eat up the sound of my acoustic bass drum. The reason I used the trigger was to help it stand out in all of that "mud".
What's wrong with a microphone? Why did you "need" a trigger to get your stuff heard? Why don't I and lots of other drummers playing low pitch rock "need" the same? The answer is you probably don't "need" them, but you want them because it makes things easier for you. Great!

Quote:

Also, I think its difficult to form an opinion on something you've never used. :)
I've used triggers plenty. I typically like them in order to trigger interesting sounds rather than artificially enhance the same notes I'm already playing. If I actually do want a computer generated or sample sound, I usually use an electronic pad or drum which is a lot easier.

The whole point I'm getting at here is that it's okay to "cheat" or "enhance" or whatever you want to call it if it gets you the end result you want in your art. It's not a competition so the whole concept of a "cheat" is kinda silly. Yes, you're "cheating" a bit to solve a specific perceived problem. So what? Why convince yourself or anyone else that it's not an added enhancement to your actual playing volume and audibility?

KamaK 02-09-2018 08:47 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1545971)
A discussion about drum triggers.

Take a statement that almost nobody has made except some troll on a message board, then get really baked, then pontificate the counter arguments. You're not having an intellectual discussion... You're high and arguing with yourself about nothing in front of a Gopro.

I should know, I do the same thing all the time, sans Gopro.

Odd-Arne Oseberg 02-09-2018 09:13 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Good standard playiing should be fine, but if you play something really offensive that triggers some of your drum's bad childhood memories you at least cheated a little bit.

Hollywood Jim 02-09-2018 09:35 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Cheating? I don't know.
Would Buddy Rich use triggers?



.

toddbishop 02-09-2018 09:41 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Oh, it's cheating all right. I looked it up in my rule book and it says trigging is most definitely c h e a t i n g.

camondrums 02-09-2018 09:42 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KamaK (Post 1546005)
Take a statement that almost nobody has made except some troll on a message board, then get really baked, then pontificate the counter arguments. You're not having an intellectual discussion... You're high and arguing with yourself about nothing in front of a Gopro.

I should know, I do the same thing all the time, sans Gopro.

hahaha I don't smoke pot, and its a Canon G7X Mark II :P

camondrums 02-09-2018 09:43 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim (Post 1546016)
Cheating? I don't know.
Would Buddy Rich use triggers?



.

Buddy Rich played in Big Band, not a death metal band. :)

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 09:46 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1546020)
Buddy Rich played in Big Band, not a death metal band. :)

Is it still cheating if it's a death big band?

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 09:48 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1546019)
hahaha I don't smoke pot, and its a Canon G7X Mark II :P

It says you're from Canada, so we don't believe that. Nice try though, eh?

On your G7x, do you use it for still shots or mostly video? I've been looking for a good compact for when I don't haul the SLR around.

KamaK 02-09-2018 09:53 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546024)
It says you're from Canada, so we don't believe that. Nice try though, eh?

Indeed, I'm also in disbelief, though I'll stop at that so as not to break the forum petting rules.

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 09:57 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Joking aboot Canadians is a human right. Don't joke about not being able to joke aboot Canadians.

IDDrummer 02-09-2018 09:58 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1546019)
hahaha I don't smoke pot, and its a Canon G7X Mark II :P

Suuuuure. We believe you. Of course we do.

You can say it's a Canon all you want, but we know it's a GoPro. lol

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:06 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer (Post 1546031)
Suuuuure. We believe you. Of course we do.

You can say it's a Canon all you want, but we know it's a GoPro. lol

hahaha you guys are too funny. But yes i'm actually canadian! And its snowing sideways right now. Ain't that aboot the truth there eh bahds.

But yes its a Canon hahaha

Lee-Bro 02-09-2018 10:07 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546021)
Is it still cheating if it's a death big band?

Would that be considered cheating death?

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 10:11 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
If anyone wants to see a REAL metal band who is definitely cheating and triggered check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBSkq-_St8

Even covering Motorhead!

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:12 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546024)
It says you're from Canada, so we don't believe that. Nice try though, eh?

On your G7x, do you use it for still shots or mostly video? I've been looking for a good compact for when I don't haul the SLR around.

For a point and shoot camera, its amazing! And its got a pretty reasonable price point at $899 CAD. Which is like $50 USD.

I'm doing more video than take shots on the camera. Regardless its pretty good, and I know little about cameras.

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:19 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546021)
Is it still cheating if it's a death big band?

I'd love to see and hear that combination of music, you might be onto something...

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:20 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546036)
If anyone wants to see a REAL metal band who is definitely cheating and triggered check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBSkq-_St8

Even covering Motorhead!

Man that's so cool!
Ever seen Motorhead live?

J-Boogie 02-09-2018 10:20 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Its only cheating if you get caught. Im pretty sure Buddy triggered all his drums and cymbals and throne. Ima go get baked so I can chime in with something more meaningful here, apologies. Actually Im on a diet, Ill get steamed instead.

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:25 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Boogie (Post 1546044)
Its only cheating if you get caught. Im pretty sure Buddy triggered all his drums and cymbals and throne. Ima go get baked so I can chime in with something more meaningful here, apologies. Actually Im on a diet, Ill get steamed instead.

hahahaha man thats wild.

Dr_Watso 02-09-2018 10:26 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by camondrums (Post 1546042)
Man that's so cool!
Ever seen Motorhead live?

I had the opportunity a few years back and got really sick so couldn't go to the damn show. "And thank you so much for bringing up such a painful memory; while you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?"

camondrums 02-09-2018 10:38 PM

Re: Triggering Your Drums Is NOT Cheating!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1546046)
I had the opportunity a few years back and got really sick so couldn't go to the damn show. "And thank you so much for bringing up such a painful memory; while you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?"


As we Canadians say, "Sorry Eh".


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