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larryace 07-18-2014 03:38 PM

Name that rhythm
 
I love all the terminology that goes with drums and music. Making a thread that names all the beats/rhythms we can think of would be a pretty cool resource.

It would also raise some good discussion I bet.

I'll start off with a rhythm that I don't know a lot about, the Boogaloo beat. My initial thought that this is the beat that Gene Krupa used on "Sing Sing Sing". You know that jungle tom thing. Only I'm not sure if that is Boogaloo. I had this discussion with my band leader and he was stumped. He seems to think it is the beat on that song "Boogaloo on Broadway", which is nothing like a jungle tom thing. So I really don't know what the Boogaloo beat is supposed to sound like. Any help would be appreciated.

I'd love to see this as a thread that names, outlines, goes into the history of, and maybe even posts examples of all the different rhythms that we as drummers should be aware of.

Anybody want to play?

8Mile 07-18-2014 03:45 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Great thread idea, Larry. Bo did a nice piece on different rhythms every drummer should know a while back. Things like bossa nova and such. I think he even demonstrated how to play each groove.

I think you should lead the way with an essay on various blues shuffles. There always seems to be disagreement about what each variation is actually called.

8Mile 07-18-2014 03:51 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Interesting thread on Boogaloo: http://www.drummagazine.com/lessons/...ogaloo-factor/

Ants linked to this in a thread about Boogaloo a couple years ago. Here it is again.

Sounds like it's basically the drum and bass stuff.

larryace 07-18-2014 03:52 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I don't have the time right this second Lar, gotta go to work, but I will later on.

I must have missed Bo's thread.

I am envisioning a thread naming about a hundred or more different rhythms, with some background info if possible.

So name a rhythm, perhaps point to it in a popular song, and if you have any other pertinent info about your rhythm(s), enlighten us all.

julius 07-19-2014 12:40 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I'll start with the obvious one:

Bo Diddley beat (any Bo Diddley song, like Who Do You Love)

keep it simple 07-19-2014 11:15 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I hear tons of inspiring rhythms all the time. I'm not sure many of them have names as such. of course, many do, it's just that I'm ignorant in that department :(

Our artist George Cook constantly surprises & pleases me with his rhythm repertoire. Not stuff I've heard elsewhere, & certainly with his flavour all over them. Maybe they've been done before, maybe not, maybe just adjusted and adapted. Sorry, I'm a pretty useless resource in this thread :(

Edit: example - http://youtu.be/eQQwo_bv_N4?t=1m14s

.

Brian 07-19-2014 01:29 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
The first time I heard "Boogaloo" was, (I'm hesitant to say) on Eazy-E's "Eazy Duz it". Then later on as an adult looked it up. :> Am I the only one?

Anon La Ply 07-19-2014 01:44 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128

New Tricks 07-20-2014 03:38 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X



And, for my contribution, I will add The Charlie Watts skip the 3 and 7 HH. We can call it the noh3/7...or maybe the JBL (just being lazy)? It's not really a beat, but it's a thing.

I had been playing it forever and didn't know it was a thing until the internet informed me.

Anon La Ply 07-20-2014 01:52 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by New Tricks (Post 1277846)
And, for my contribution, I will add The Charlie Watts skip the 3 and 7 HH. We can call it the noh3/7...or maybe the JBL (just being lazy)? It's not really a beat, but it's a thing.

I'd still call it a money beat, just that he's playing linearly with his hands.

Audiopat 07-20-2014 04:05 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by New Tricks (Post 1277846)
I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X

Haha, Tommy Igoe calls this "pea pea soup", expanding on his "pea soup" explanation for the sound of disco hats.

I would like to add the Bossa Nova drum beat to this, think "Girl from Ipanema"
http://youtu.be/SROlcFnq-Do

Love this beat.

opentune 07-20-2014 05:17 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Money Beat (think Bille Jean)
Four-on-the-Floor
Bolero Beat (the Cream intro to White Room)
Jezebel Beat (...nah juts kiddin' on that one)

WhoIsTony? 07-20-2014 05:42 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
in a couple big bands I worked with .... when half timing an ending ... ya know, kinda "bringin' it home" swinging hard and crashing with a snare on 2 & 4 with sort of a NY/NY feel ending ...."its up to you (crash) , new (crash) york..." ....they would call it .... the strip ... or the strip beat.

Liebe zeit 07-20-2014 05:54 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1277918)
Money Beat (think Bille Jean)

Also in the original of Knock on Wood

I've been doing a bunch of 60s soul beats lately, studying the likes of Al Jackson, Carl Cunningham. There's:

* Motown beat (I play it 4 on the floor plus 8ths)
* All 8ths on the BD (bits of Soul Man, Road Runner)
* 4 on the floor (I can't turn you loose - or at least I play it that way)
* What became a standard rock beat - bum-ch-bumbum-ch (Midnight Hour)
* Then a bunch of variants of what I just call "the soul beat" - bum-ch-bumbum-ch-bum - that can have added snare ghost (Hold on I'm coming), added hat lift (Mustang Sally) or as-is (Harlem Shuffle)

WhoIsTony? 07-20-2014 06:04 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
how about the swing/straight groove

a la DJ Fontana with Elvis or Earl Palmer with Little Richard

larryace 07-20-2014 08:11 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1277767)
Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128


Completely forgot about this, and you're right, your friend is annoying lol. When I did this thread, I wondered if I had done it before, but it was actually you. It sounded familiar and I was just waiting to get busted by someone.

Still, you have to admit, that by all counts, my thread is better than yours :P.

WaitForItDrummer 07-20-2014 08:14 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
1 Attachment(s)
Great thread idea, Larry! How about New Orleans Funk

larryace 07-20-2014 11:00 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? (Post 1277923)
how about the swing/straight groove

a la DJ Fontana with Elvis or Earl Palmer with Little Richard

You mean where the beat is like straight kick but swung (or shuffled?) ride or hi hat or bass drum hoop?

I remember reading somewhere once that the "swung" part of the beat was what put the "roll" in rock and roll. Sounds right to me.

Did you coin the term swing/straight groove or is that an old term?

Ant, your opinion please...recently we have been doing John Mayer's version of "After Midnight"...Mayer did it on Seth Meyers a little bit ago...It's a slowed down greasier version compared to Clapton's version. Steve Jordan plays on it and he is basically playing a money beat with that famous SJ chicken grease feel for the meat of the groove, straight feel. Anyway, my bandleader asked me to "swing it". Which to me meant doing a half time shuffle, which is what he must have been thinking of, because he's apparently happy with it. So my question, in your mind, what is the difference between swing and shuffle? Or anyone who has an opinion. The "skip beat" is a dotted figure, right? So a swing and a shuffle are related but a shuffle is all "skip" beats and swing stuff mixes them up with non dotted notes. Is that close?

Red Menace 07-20-2014 11:10 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by New Tricks (Post 1277846)
I want to know the name, slang or official, for the high hat thing .... xxX xxX xxX xxX..... with the HH opening briefly on the capital X

I have always called that a Columbia rhythm. The "Broken triplet" as I call it (8th notes with a rest on the 'uh') are very popular in Cumbia, Not sure if it is played quite that way though...

Here is a fun example I found. Really makes this song more listenable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIK_8AGfk4Y

While we're on it, does the Cumbia beat come from a Cascara pattern?

New Tricks 07-20-2014 11:26 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I meant like the intro to Skynyrds I know a Little

mmulcahy1 07-20-2014 11:36 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace (Post 1277977)

Here is a fun example I found. Really makes this song more listenable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIK_8AGfk4Y

Really, that's more listenable? That was Menacing! :-)

There's got to be other examples out there that don't include Hannah Montana.

WhoIsTony? 07-21-2014 12:30 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1277976)
You mean where the beat is like straight kick but swung (or shuffled?) ride or hi hat or bass drum hoop?

I remember reading somewhere once that the "swung" part of the beat was what put the "roll" in rock and roll. Sounds right to me.

Did you coin the term swing/straight groove or is that an old term?

Ant, your opinion please...recently we have been doing John Mayer's version of "After Midnight"...Mayer did it on Seth Meyers a little bit ago...It's a slowed down greasier version compared to Clapton's version. Steve Jordan plays on it and he is basically playing a money beat with that famous SJ chicken grease feel for the meat of the groove, straight feel. Anyway, my bandleader asked me to "swing it". Which to me meant doing a half time shuffle, which is what he must have been thinking of, because he's apparently happy with it. So my question, in your mind, what is the difference between swing and shuffle? Or anyone who has an opinion. The "skip beat" is a dotted figure, right? So a swing and a shuffle are related but a shuffle is all "skip" beats and swing stuff mixes them up with non dotted notes. Is that close?

A shuffle IS swinging.... Play a shuffle without swinging it and u have straight 8ths.

But there is that no mans land between the two .. Think jailhouse rock ... Actually quite difficult to execute

But a dotted 8th shuffle definitely feels different than a triplet based shuffle

And yes... In my world "grease" means some form of swing implied inside the groove

larryace 07-21-2014 12:55 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? (Post 1277994)

But a dotted 8th shuffle definitely feels different than a triplet based shuffle

Can you elaborate on this? Maybe an example or something.

8Mile 07-21-2014 01:09 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1277997)
Can you elaborate on this? Maybe an example or something.

Larry,

Check out the drum grooves in Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On or Jailhouse Rock.

8Mile 07-21-2014 01:19 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1277767)
Larry, an annoying friend of mine started a thread exactly like this about 5 years ago :) http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54128

Old threads.

Speaking of missing persons who posted to that thread, whatever happened to DeltaDrummer? I remember some fallout from the thread where he posted a cut-time shuffle and haven't really heard from him since. Was that why?

larryace 07-21-2014 02:29 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile (Post 1278004)
Old threads.

Speaking of missing persons who posted to that thread, whatever happened to DeltaDrummer? I remember some fallout from the thread where he posted a cut-time shuffle and haven't really heard from him since. Was that why?

That was why. He caught a lot of flak for "not doing it good enough" by some estimations as I recall.

8Mile 07-21-2014 02:57 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
I listed a couple of old rock and roll tunes but here's one of my favorites in a different style. The great Billy Higgins, playing "in the cracks," as a former member here (I'm sorry, can't remember who it was) described the way he got between straight 8th and swing. http://youtu.be/qJi03NqXfk8

WhoIsTony? 07-21-2014 03:01 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Mile (Post 1278023)
I listed a couple of old rock and roll tunes but here's one of my favorites in a different style. The great Billy Higgins, playing "in the cracks," as a former member here (I'm sorry, can't remember who it was) described the way he got between straight 8th and swing. http://youtu.be/qJi03NqXfk8

thats a great example of that beautiful middle ground

it's that more straight-ish 8th ECM thing ... I love it

BacteriumFendYoke 07-21-2014 03:43 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1278019)
That was why. He caught a lot of flak for "not doing it good enough" by some estimations as I recall.

It was a case (in my view) of having a pretty thin skin. He was a very decent guy and a good player in general. I remember that thread too and there was some fair criticism which he took quite personally, which surprised me.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=76170

There we go. Sadly, the video at issue is now locked down. He ended up getting into an argument with Lutz, which is usually a bad idea - Lutz is an absolutely killer player and really knows what he's talking about.

Forgot that I got involved with that, too...

DrumDoug 07-21-2014 05:44 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
A popular blues groove that doesn't have an official name is one I call the 1 3/4 shuffle. A mathematical play on words from the double shuffle. It's the basic groove that Chris Layton plays on Cold Shot. The riding hand plays quarter notes and the snare plays the the rest of the shuffle leaving out beats one and three, thereby playing 3/4 of the shuffle.

Anon La Ply 07-21-2014 07:23 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1277948)
Completely forgot about this, and you're right, your friend is annoying lol. When I did this thread, I wondered if I had done it before, but it was actually you. It sounded familiar and I was just waiting to get busted by someone.

Still, you have to admit, that by all counts, my thread is better than yours :P.

It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...

BacteriumFendYoke 07-21-2014 01:15 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1278072)
It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...

I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.

keep it simple 07-21-2014 02:48 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1278072)
It must be, Lazza! Everyone is congratulating you on a good idea and I don't think anyone has clicked the link to the original thread and covering old ground. Maybe due to my namesake's annoyingness? ;-)

Dunc, I now regret saying what I did on that closed thread. It's probably more important to be kind than right ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1278102)
I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.

I remember that thread very well. One of the really low points of the forum, but mainly down to a very personal reaction from Ken. I still don't understand Ken's reaction, it must have touched a raw nerve. I just know the whole thing left me feeling sad. Sad also that Lutz is no longer active on this forum, an immense player & a really nice guy in person.

Erm - Polly. Nothing annoying about you, nor was it inappropriate to post an alternative example to Ken's video. Two different approaches to a similar groove. Nothing wrong with that. Ken over reacted. He wasn't the first, & certainly won't be the last.

Anon La Ply 07-21-2014 03:40 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1278102)
I don't think you were out of line at all. I think it's most important to be honest. We didn't know that Ken would react the way he did - we all figured he was a big boy that could handle honest appraisal. Evidently not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1278108)
I remember that thread very well. One of the really low points of the forum, but mainly down to a very personal reaction from Ken. I still don't understand Ken's reaction, it must have touched a raw nerve. I just know the whole thing left me feeling sad. Sad also that Lutz is no longer active on this forum, an immense player & a really nice guy in person.

Thanks guys. I was shocked and saddened by his response too, and felt really guilty afterwards in an "eggshell skull" kind of way.B oth Ken and Lutz were real assets to the forum, both generous sharing their considerable knowledge.

Bloody half time shuffle, eh? I'm still pretty ordinary at it - can only slip or two triplets into a bar. No way can I do the full Purdie with triplets powering through it unless I'm playing four on the floor on the kick.

opentune 07-21-2014 05:00 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumDoug (Post 1278061)
A popular blues groove that doesn't have an official name is one I call the 1 3/4 shuffle. A mathematical play on words from the double shuffle. It's the basic groove that Chris Layton plays on Cold Shot. The riding hand plays quarter notes and the snare plays the the rest of the shuffle leaving out beats one and three, thereby playing 3/4 of the shuffle.

Hmmmm, and I was told Cold Shot is a 'Texas shuffle'. Arrgh so many variations...

By the way , off topic, do you know you live near a very famous studio drummer, Jim Gordon, who is incarcerated at the institution outside Vacaville?

larryace 07-21-2014 06:58 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Oh queso here's some shuffles I know the names of. One name I use I just made up... the backbeat shuffle, a shuffle you would use on a rock tune like "Smokin in the Boy's Room" or Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow)"

Backbeat shuffle
Double shuffle
Half time shuffle
Flat tire shuffle
Swing shuffle
Texas shuffle

Each shuffle can be played a bunch of different ways, but each of these feel a little different from one another. For instance the double shuffle, I play with 3 limbs shuffling, hi hat chick on 2 & 4, others play a straight kick and shuffle both hands, hi hat on 2 & 4...Both are considered double shuffle I'd say. Nothing is cut and dried, more like general guidelines.

keep it simple 07-21-2014 07:05 PM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1278157)
Oh queso here's some shuffles I know the names of. One name I use I just made up... the backbeat shuffle, a shuffle you would use on a rock tune like "Smokin in the Boy's Room" or Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow)"

Backbeat shuffle
Double shuffle
Half time shuffle
Flat tire shuffle
Swing shuffle
Texas shuffle

Each shuffle can be played a bunch of different ways, but each of these feel a little different from one another. For instance the double shuffle, I play with 3 limbs shuffling, hi hat chick on 2 & 4, others play a straight kick and shuffle both hands, hi hat on 2 & 4...Both are considered double shuffle I'd say. Nothing is cut and dried, more like general guidelines.

Larry, I'd love you to do a "show & tell" on shuffles. I suck royally at shuffles (although I can manage most simple forms). Something I really would like time to work on - one day :(

I'd also like to see you spend some time trading with Matt Cowley (I think you met him briefly at LDS last year). He's an industry go to Mr. shuffle deep grooving MoFo, & I could listen to him all day :)

toddmc 07-22-2014 01:15 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quick question for you rhythm experts:
Whilst attending a Derek Roddy clinic he briefly mentioned (and played) something called the "flat tyre" (single snare hit, followed by a single bass drum/ride cymbal hit- wash, rinse and repeat).
Is this an actual thing or was he taking the piss?

Bo Eder 07-22-2014 01:18 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1278246)
Quick question for you rhythm experts:
Whilst attending a Derek Roddy clinic he briefly mentioned (and played) something called the "flat tyre" (single snare hit, followed by a single bass drum/ride cymbal hit- wash, rinse and repeat).
Is this an actual thing or was he taking the piss?

Sounds alot like Jens Hannemans' "Flam Rest" ;)

mmulcahy1 07-22-2014 01:57 AM

Re: Name that rhythm
 
The next rhythm I make up will be named Mohammed Lee.

Why? Why not.


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