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-   -   Changing heads question (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115173)

Mike_In_KC 03-13-2014 09:44 PM

Changing heads question
 
Not sure where to start with this...

I noticed shortly after changing heads on my snare that it was coming out of tune faster than normal. Everything looked ok on the batter side but when I turned it over I could see that the resonant head had issues. Kind of hard to explain but it looks crooked - when I hold the drum up so I can look down across the resonant head it looks lower in one area than on the opposite side. I fear I really screwed up. I was going to take it apart and see what I can do with it after practice last night but I was too tired to mess with it.

Based on my scatter-brained report can anyone diagnose what I may have done wrong? I think I either:

- Tightened the drum unevenly
- Did not center the head correctly
- Both of the above

Is it normal to have an inch or so worth of "play" with a new head? I mean when I sit the new head on the drum and push it to one side there will be about a one inch gap opposite the side that is flush.

Sorry for the rambling - any help is appreciated.

MM

Pocket-full-of-gold 03-13-2014 10:23 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Pics always help. In the meantime, I'd take it off and start again.

A whole inch of play is a hell of a lot though mate. Sure you've got the right sized head? Or is the drum horribly out of round?

BradGunnerSGT 03-13-2014 10:26 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I suspect that you are right and that the head wasn't seated and was also unevenly tensioned. As long as you didn't have it on long or really cranked the crap out of it, you should be able to reseat it and tension it evenly and it shouldn't permanently damage the head.

You mentioned a difference of an inch (!!) between one side and another...I hope that is just an exaggeration because a head that stretched on one side but not the other would have been easy to spot before you put it on. Normally, there may be a little bit of play and/or unevenness, but nowhere near what you are describing. Modern manufacturing techniques and quality control are usually pretty good but there are always slip-ups that get through, though.

Mike_In_KC 03-13-2014 11:12 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I think I am going to be sick - seriously this sucks

I took everything off of the snare and laid the drum on a flat surface - I can easily slide three pieces of paper stack on top of each other under part of the drum - it is fuuckin bent up. I am so pissed off ugsahskdPS"FDWAD

Beam Me Up Scotty 03-13-2014 11:31 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Actually, if this is the resonant side we're talking about, it's probably just your snare beds that you're talking about. There will always be slight cuts in the reso side bearing edge to allow a greater contact with the snare wires to the head itself. As such, there would be the gaps on the drum that allow paper to fit underneath.

If it isn't your snare bed, then yes, you have problems.

Winston_Wolf 03-13-2014 11:32 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Are we talking about the snare bed, or something else?

Mike_In_KC 03-13-2014 11:40 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_Wolf (Post 1240426)
Are we talking about the snare bed, or something else?

I dunno man I am newbie at this - I just know that it is fubar. I read somewhere that if you lay the drum down on its bearing edges that you should not see any gaps - I have a gap the size of Michael Strahan's front teeth on the resonant side of the drum and a smaller one on the batter head. If I knew how to post pictures (no time to read now) I would send you the picture of the drum sitting with paper slid underneath it.

Kinda funny though - except for me knowing it is f'd up I can get a pretty cool sound out of it - sure I gotta retune after every song - but hey who doesn't spend 5 minutes between songs tuning? Oh - nobody? Well I am starting a new trend...

Pocket-full-of-gold 03-13-2014 11:41 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
You need to get some pics up mate. Settle this once and for all. I'm confused now as to where the one inch movement is. I thought you meant the head slides by an inch laterally across the shell, leaving an inch gap between bearing edge and head collar. It sounds now as if that's not the case. If it is indeed the snare beds you're talking about, then it may not be the problem you're thinking it is.

Mike_In_KC 03-14-2014 12:10 AM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I will try to get pics up - my bad. I have it all back together now just so I have something to hit today. I will try to clarify some earlier statements:

The statement about "play" in the head - I had my measurements off. My bad. There was probably only 1/4" or less of play when the head was placed on top of the bearing edges.

The bent stuff - I lay the drum down on my flat counter top and then lean down to see if the bearing edges are lying flush with the counter top - or super close at least. I was following the information read on another drum site:

Do D Carroll's test first--heads off, set bearing edges on flat surface. Shouldn't be any gaps. Check the bearing edges themselves, should be smooth and even, no chunks missing.

Second test, shell roundness: bring a tape measure, and while you have the heads off, measure across the diameter. Note the measurement. Now measure again but at right angles to the first meaurement. (i.e., 1st measure from 12 to 6 o'clock, then from 9 to 3 o'clock.) Those measurements should be within 1/16th". If not the shell is out of round.


It failed test #1

MM

keep it simple 03-14-2014 12:21 AM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Mike, let's break this down into bite size chunks.

Is your counter top stone/marble, etc? If so, it's probably fairly flat, at least enough for a basic check.

Laid on the reso edge, if you're looking at two gaps directly opposite each other, they are the snare beds. They should be roughly 3" long and somewhere between 1/8" & 1/16" lower than the bearing edge peak/crest.

You mention the same/similar gap on the batter edge. That's not a good thing, but won't account for the big difference in head/hoop height from one side of the drum to the other. That's probably down to you tensioning the head unevenly.

What model of snare do you own? Is it metal or wood? Pictures will help us help you a lot :)

Mike_In_KC 03-14-2014 12:40 AM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I have to leave for a while - I will get pictures upoaded asap. The drum is the snare that came with the 6 piece Catalina Maple - it is 14x6 - back later. Thanks for the help thus far.

Mike_In_KC 03-14-2014 07:01 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I am sorry guys - I don't have the technology to upload pictures right now - my phone is an old flip phone and I don't own a camera. I use my wife's IPhone for stuff like this and she is out of town.

More will be revealed this evening at my lesson - my teacher asked to see the drum after I told him the situation. I will report back to you guys what I find out. Sorry for all of the ambiguity and confusion and thanks for all of the interest and advise.

MM

Winston_Wolf 03-14-2014 07:07 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
You might be able to answer your own question if you Google "snare bed" and look at some pictures of what the snare bed should look like compared to what you're seeing on your drum.

GRUNTERSDAD 03-14-2014 07:13 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
I'm guessing snare beds as well, and also you should never never visit another drumming web site. 8+)

Mike_In_KC 03-17-2014 05:41 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Turned out that the problem was not with the drum - it is fine. It was simply a rookie mistake. I did not uniformly tighten the drum after changing the head and had not properly centered the new head on the drum. I panicked when I saw the warped looking head and assumed the drum was bent. I "confirmed" that the drum was warped by mistaking the snare beds for gaps in the drum. I replaced the head again, and did it all over correctly - centering the new head carefully and using two drum keys in the star pattern to tension the head - all is well. Thanks for all of the help and sorry for the hassles.

MM

Winston_Wolf 03-18-2014 01:10 AM

Re: Changing heads question
 
No worries man. Nobody just starts off knowing all of this stuff, it takes time, trial and error, and asking questions. It sounds like you were able to figure it out, and hopefully you've got the sound you were looking for now.

:)

BradGunnerSGT 03-18-2014 04:59 PM

Re: Changing heads question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_In_KC (Post 1241619)
Turned out that the problem was not with the drum - it is fine. It was simply a rookie mistake. I did not uniformly tighten the drum after changing the head and had not properly centered the new head on the drum. I panicked when I saw the warped looking head and assumed the drum was bent. I "confirmed" that the drum was warped by mistaking the snare beds for gaps in the drum. I replaced the head again, and did it all over correctly - centering the new head carefully and using two drum keys in the star pattern to tension the head - all is well. Thanks for all of the help and sorry for the hassles.

MM

In the IT world where I work, the acronym we use is PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard), i.e. user error.

Don't feel bad, we've all been there and learning about stuff like this is what Drummerworld is for!


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