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TonTon 02-28-2014 07:30 PM

Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Greetings drummers,

this is my first post in this forum and some things could be out of place, please just tell me.

So, I bought already used Roland TD4 on ebay 2 weeks ago. I'm a guitarist from nature, but nevertheless I always wanted to drum and it's been a blast and I want to continue to lern to play drums :)

Short explanation is pretty simple.
If you want it to get complicated read the status from Midi Monitor.

Anyhow, even I'm a bit advanced in using audio plugins for the most purposes and I had my share with midi and so on, I'm having trouble to understand the nature of the problem I'm having with my TD4:

Pads used: HH, Ride
Plugins/modules: TD4, Superior Drummer, NI's Modern Drummer


Error: HH and Ride are sending a double hit by one shot/ hit. (edge only issue) 1st hit (intended) - edge. 2nd hit - bow.

Please look for the possible solution I've reasoned out below first!

I can see the double hit on the display of the TD4.
I can see the double hit in SD/MD.
I can see the double hit using MIDI Monitor by Snoize (you can skeep this)

Quote:

I recieve following notes (the number at the end is the velocity):

HH Pad Example:

HH closed (pedal) / 127
HH bow F#1 (note on/off) / 127
HH edge A# / 127

HH open (pedal) / 0
HH bow A#1 / 127
HH edge D0 / 127

Sofar so good hitting the HH just once, but then I hit the HH (edge only issue) repeatedly (1/8 for instance) then we have:

HH closed
HH edge A# / 127, F#1 / 5
HH edge A# / 127, F#1 / 10
HH edge A# / 127, F#1 / 9
HH edge A# / 127, F#1 / 12
... and so on. Happening sporadically!
At the same time TD4-module (display) jumps between 46 (A#2) and 26 (D1). The same is with the Open HH and Ride, without clastering you with the status messages again. But if you need those - no problem.

reasoning:

At first I though it would be SD, MD fault, but after listening closely TD4 plays the double hit as well just very quietly. So, only after playing SD/MD I could hear the double hit.

Could be something physicaly broken? Like the pads by overusing or the TD4-module itself?
Do I have to configure something I still don't know of?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, possible cause: I exchanged the cords between Ride (right hand side) and Crash (left hand side) between eachother and as the matter of fact Crash is no having the issue.

Ok, question to the possible cause: Does it seem right to you, is it a common issue and can it be fixed before running off and buying new cymbal and hh-pads?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope all the evil happening because I'm a guitarist :D , but I maybe you could help me anyway. O:)

Croc 02-28-2014 10:15 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Hi TonTon:

Pull out your user's manual and look for the section on pad settings / trigger parameters. On the TD-9 and TD-6 modules, you can change the setting on RETRIGGER CANCEL and SCAN TIME to deal with multiple triggers. Take a look and report back.

TonTon 03-01-2014 10:24 AM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Thank you Croc! I adjusted the settings and added Mask Time as well (was a hint from another forum).

"There are positive changes now. For the loud hits it solved the issue for the most part. Not for the very quiet though, it still continues on HH up to 90% on Ride 10-20% of the hits. Nevertheless, it's a positive change and I don't think the remaining glitches would be of any issue for me since I'm hiting the edge like an animal ;).

Anyway, my settings just for a comparisson for those who might have the same issue:

Retrig Cancel - 10 (anything higher and rebounce hits are not pissible/will not be audible at higher volumes/velocities/the louder you play)
Mask Time - 6ms (for you still to be able to play faster anything lower might be a problem)
I also added
Scan Time - 0,4ms (1,2 toms and 2ms Snare by default). I did it to ballance out the Retrig high settings. It makes sence to make this change reading the manual, but I could not detect any major changes.

Two questions - is this happening because of the low quality of the TD4-module? Compared to TD9 or other higher numbered modules I mean?
If this is the case I'll reset my goal on getting the TD9 module. If not then I'll be slightly dissapointed ^^"

And - so, deffect pads can be rulled out?

davezedlee 03-01-2014 02:40 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
turn your gain settings down, until your hardest hits register at about 125 on all your pads

adrenaline will get you the rest

TonTon 03-01-2014 04:19 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
hey Dav, thanks for replying!

Right now I'm more fiddeling with the plugins, trying to find good sounding toms, which could mean that I'm now quite happy with the TD4 itself, but

I couldn't find any Gain settings on my TD4 and the manual only mentions the Rim-gain.
But my volumes are (maybe it's the same thing you mean)

Kick 100 (I took everything else down because I couln't hear it)
Cymbals 85
Rest 59

After reading your post it gave me an idea and I actually boosted the sensitivity a bit for all the pads to be more responsive. Thanks for that!

In the end my ultimative goal is to play through the plugins I have and some settings in TD4 just do not apply anymore though.

Croc 03-01-2014 05:56 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Hi TonTon:

Glad you are having some good luck with dialing in the settings! I cannot be certain whether the pads on the TD-4 set are more prone to double triggering than mesh head pads. I do know that on my TD-9 I get some double triggering on the kick pad when I bury the beater. Maybe some slight changes in technique such as stick pull back might help. Then again, if you are happy with how it is working now, move along!

Let me know how you get on with settings for use with VST plugins. I am getting ready to go down that road myself.

TonTon 03-01-2014 08:42 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Hey Croc,

the cymbal and hh pads aren't mesh by default and I have replaced factory kick with a meshed one. So, I dunno if TD4's mentioned hardware more prone to double triggering.

Still can't figure out if an upgrade to TD9-module would be any better or not. Overused pads I almost rulled out.

What would you like to know? Would glad to help.

I'm using Modern Drummer which I like for playing on edrums. It just sounds right to me. But the settings compared to Superior Drummer for instance are very ascetic. And all the drums you can use in NI's Kontakt you can use in standallone which saves cpu power and allows you to get down with the latency if that should of any concern (on my iMac anyway).

I used Addictive Drums a while ago. It is a ready to go sound and after getting used to playing TD4 I probably will be looking in to it again.

If you are having a big edrum set, Session Drummer by NI could be a good choice.

Again NI's Vintage Drums series 60/70' are funny to play. Still want to try the 80' though. Here I would probably spend more time on tweaking the set to even out the sound. It's all low end like in the good old days.

And of course there are the monolith drums like Superior Drummer and BFD Drums with large libraries and settings. Never used BFDs but am using SD in the mix.

But then I describe what I know and probably not even what you wanted to know :D

Let me know if you need anything.

stellar92010 03-01-2014 09:22 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
On the TD-4 you want to first set up the pad settings and then go to 'advanced pad settings' (I think it embedded in menu 8) and set the mask time, retrigger, threshold, and scan time for each pad until it stops the retrigger and gives you natural attack with no delay.

I can't remember what settings, but if a pad has 2 triggers, (snare, cymbal, etc) you have to set some of the parameters for each trigger, not each pad.

Croc 03-02-2014 03:56 AM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Hiya TonTon:

Thanks for the great info. I want to trigger VST from my TD9 and Octapad but don't have DAW software or a digital / MIDI interface yet. I would like to record both my electronic and ultimately acoustic drums. Hope I can bounce some ideas off you as I go through this process!

TonTon 03-03-2014 10:10 AM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Sorry for the delay guys, we having holidays here. :)

Hey Croc,

uuuh, that's the exciting stuff you're gettin into. I'm sure you'll love it. It opens much more options for creativity. Although getting to know the DAW can be tidious at times.

Of couse, I'd be glad to help you. (So far I did not recieve any messages about your posts here, but now I changed to instant mail notification so it should work)

- I could try to answer generall questions regarding DAWs and audio interfaces.
- Detailed question for the Ableton Live I'm working with.
- And of course I hope to be of any help with the plugins you intend to use or planing on getting into.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stellar92010 (Post 1236258)
... you have to set some of the parameters for each trigger, not each pad.

Hey Stellar, thanks for the advise. So far I applied everything or at least I tried all the options you and other members mentioned. Just seem not to get any luck with getting in to specific settings for each trigger/ zone instead of those for a pad. Maybe you can help with some detail on that?


I still did not get to set up choking, but it can wait a little longer. Right now I'm just enjoing the senceless hammering ;)

TonTon 03-05-2014 12:03 PM

Re: Roland V-Drums triggers double notes
 
Croc, even though I subscribed to the topic I don't get any notifications. So if anything send me a pm, hope should work.


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