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-   -   Double Bass Pedal issue (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113830)

GrebGoneBad 01-28-2014 03:55 PM

Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Hi all!

First off, this is my first post here at drummerworld and so if I make a mistake or leave any information out I apologise. =)

About 2 months ago I bought myself a double bass pedal, nothing fancy, just a 60 one from Ebay. After a bit of tinkering I managed to get it to perform at an acceptable level, but it is not perfect. I'll explain the issue below:

When I press the right hand pedal down (Which is the leading pedal that both beaters are attaached to) the beater will strike the kick and will swing back and forth for quite a while before stopping. When I press the left hand pedal down the beater will strike the kick but will stop swinging in far less time than the right hand beater. I like plenty of swing on my pedals, just personal preference, and so this causes an issue for me and my timing when playing long double bass beats. Short fills and triplets, etc. are fine.

I believe the issue lies with the drive shaft connecting the two pedals together. The drive shaft I have is almost identical to the one pictured here:

http://www.dv247.com/drums-and-percu...ersion--203073

The pins that are holding the linkages together are quite loose, and will slide up and down, causing the left hand beater to 'rattle' for want of a better word. Also, I can press the left hand pedal down a small portion without the beater actually moving, due to this extra movement in the drive shaft.

Does anyone know if this is normal for a drive shaft, or should I think about investing in a new, higher quality one?

P.s.I know that for 60 I can't expect a top notch pair of pedals, which is why I am not returning the pedals to the seller. The right hand pedal functions perfectly, with no rattle and plenty of swing. If a new drive shaft will allow the left hand pedal to function the same I am not against buying a new one. =)

bud7h4 01-29-2014 04:49 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Hi, it's perfectly normal for the slave pedal to sway less than the master pedal. It's an unfortunate reality of double pedals. Even my speed cobra slave sways much less freely than the main pedal, however both pedals actually feel the same.

Quote:

Also, I can press the left hand pedal down a small portion without the beater actually moving, due to this extra movement in the drive shaft.
That is not good at all.

Trick Drums makes possibly the best pedal drive shaft in the world, and the 5.0 version is available in retrofit that works perfectly with most or all other major manufacturers' pedals. It's a great investment. As far as I know there are two models, each which is designed to work with a number of other pedals. Just get the correct one and you'll be all set.

Reggae_Mangle 01-29-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Think of it in physics terms. You have one beater connected directly to a pedal. On the other hand, the other beater is connected to a separate pedal located some distance away via a connecting rod (driveshaft).

The pedal with beater only has the weight of the beater to contend with after being depressed. The one using a connecting rod has the weight of the rod affecting the swing as well. Hence, it rocks a little less back and forth.

As far as the beater not moving at all when depressing the slave a bit, I think the problem is that you have too much slack in the chain/belt. That excess slack has to be pulled first before the beater begins to move. So if you remove one of the linkages or shorten the belt to take out the slack, you should get a better response.

I wouldn't invest in a better driveshaft like the Trick for the simple reason that it'll probably cost more than your pedals. Better to conserve your money, practice and when you feel you've maxed out your performance or want a change, upgrade to a pro level bit of kit.

GrebGoneBad 01-29-2014 11:26 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Thanks for your reply bud7h4! Most appreciated!

Ah, okay. I wasnt sure if this was normal or not so thanks for clarifying. Although I still think that it is swinging less than it should all the same. While the lead beater will swing for around 15-20 seconds or so, the other one will ony swing for about 5 seconds or less. Perhaps a new drive shaft willl help this?

Okay, so a new drive shaft is no.1 priority at the minute. =) Unfortunatly my budget does not allow for any expensive gear at the moment. =( I did find this on Ebay which seems to have good ratings in the seller feedback:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1512099753...84.m1497.l2649

I know that once again, it is an unbranded, cheap part, but by the looks of it it should serve me well? Oppionions?

FYI, I need to make a decision on a drive shaft within the next few days as I have a gig on Saturday. Lol. XD

GrebGoneBad 01-29-2014 11:29 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Thanks for your input Reggae_Mangle. =)

I understand what you're saying. More resistance in the left hand pedal + drive shaft = less swing. I still don't think the swing should be as little as it is howevever.

I'll have a go at tinkering with the chain and spring tension and see what I can do. =)

Dre25 01-29-2014 12:07 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
That's to be expected from a cheaper pedal but comparing how the pedals perform without your feet actually on them is not really a practical sort of test.

It's only the top end pedals that have an identical feeling master and slave pedal. Beginners will blame their double kick pedal when they can't get their feet to perform evenly but the reality is that learning double bass is HARD and minor differences between the pedals really aren't worth fussing over.

A worn out driveshaft is worth replacing though.

GrebGoneBad 01-29-2014 12:13 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre25 (Post 1224721)
That's to be expected from a cheaper pedal but comparing how the pedals perform without your feet actually on them is not really a practical sort of test.

It's only the top end pedals that have an identical feeling master and slave pedal. Beginners will blame their double kick pedal when they can't get their feet to perform evenly but the reality is that learning double bass is HARD and minor differences between the pedals really aren't worth fussing over.

A worn out driveshaft is worth replacing though.

I know that a cheap pedal isn't exactly going to perform like a pair of 300 pedals, but I would still expect them to function adequately. And as far as learning how to double bass goes I do actually know how to as I have been using a friends double bass pedal for several years now, he lent them to me, after he upgraded to a double kick drum set, for me to keep for as long as I wanted. He did offer to sell them to me but he spent alot of money on his and he wanted more money than I was willing to part with. So eventually I bought my own pair, albeit a much cheaper pair. I think I'm too used to his pedals to be honest after having used them for so long. I'm sure a new drive shaft will improve my pedals performance somewhat anyway. =)

GRUNTERSDAD 01-29-2014 06:16 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
One pedal. one set of bearings. Two pedals, one drive shaft, and two more sets of bearings. I found that on my cheaper double pedal it is the bearings that are used are much less expensive and where the company saved money. So there are a few factors. Take the drive shaft off and do the pedal by itself and see how it functions.

bud7h4 01-30-2014 12:19 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1224709)
I wouldn't invest in a better driveshaft like the Trick for the simple reason that it'll probably cost more than your pedals.

I considered that too, that's why I refered to it as in "investment". No matter what pedal he upgrades to, that drive shaft will almost surely improve it's performance, and it's not going to wear out. I'm using the same Trick shaft on my power glides and speed cobras.

But I would first make certain the drive shaft you have now is a problem.

MrInsanePolack 01-30-2014 07:26 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Here is how you check the driveshaft. With your left hand, grab the cam assembly on the slave pedal. With your right hand, move the left beater back and forth. If you can move the beater more than 1/4" (about 6mm), your driveshaft is worn out. As others have stated, the extra mass will effect the slave to some degree, but a worn out driveshaft will only exaggerate the problem. A properly functioning driveshaft should overcome the extra mass and be hardly noticeable at all while being played.

GrebGoneBad 01-30-2014 10:33 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Hi guys!

I just want to say I really appreciate all the help and advice you've been giving me, so thanks everyone!

@GRUNTERSDAD - I actually replaced the bearings that came with the pedals shortly after recieving them as they were'nt up to scratch. =) The slave pedal by itself works fine, I still need to adjust my spring tensions a little in order to get it to match the master but this won't take much doing.

@bud7h4 - I've actually just invested in a new drive shaft now, this one:

http://www.drumshop.co.uk/buy/connec...drum-pedal.htm

Including postage (I've had to pay for speedy delivery) it's actually ended up costing the same as the pedals. =P I hope this one is good enough, third times the charm right?

@MrInsanePolack - I can confirm that the drive shaft is worn out. I am able to move the beater about 10mm. I did recieve my new drive shaft through the post yesterday (Not the one linked above) which I bought from Ebay for 27, but the same thing is occuring with that one. I would have thought that 27 would have been enough for a decent drive shaft, but I guess not. This is why I've spent 45 on a Stagg one, which I hope will fare better. I won't be recieving this until Friday at the earliest, so I won't be able to say whether it has made a difference until them im afraid. =(

Dre25 01-30-2014 11:25 AM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Should just bought your friends pedal lol.

I say get a p902, they're awesome and they're cheap.

GrebGoneBad 01-30-2014 01:35 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre25 (Post 1225129)
Should just bought your friends pedal lol.

I say get a p902, they're awesome and they're cheap.

Ha ha, probably yeah! Thing is he wanted at least 150 for them which is more than I was willing to spend at the time. I suppose I should have just waited and saved up the cash. =P

Those P902's look sweet actually, but still out of my price bracket for now. I think I'll save up for these though! I could probably afford them if I sold the pedals and drive shaft I have now (Which is worth around 100 new so I'd say I could probably get around 70) but I'd have to go without pedals for a couple of weeks probably. I'll think about it. =) You say these are good pedals, have you had personal experience with them?

Dre25 01-30-2014 03:35 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Yes, I practiced on some for 2-3 years and they really grew on me. I have been through a few top shelf pedals too.

MrInsanePolack 01-30-2014 04:02 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre25 (Post 1225163)
Yes, I practiced on some for 2-3 years and they really grew on me. I have been through a few top shelf pedals too.

I still use them with no issues. Definitely no issues and they can handle anything I ask them to do.

GrebGoneBad 01-30-2014 06:01 PM

Re: Double Bass Pedal issue
 
Okay, so i;ve just had a bit of good news. At least I hope it is. =P

The online store that I bought my new drive shaft from (http://www.drumshop.co.uk/buy/connec...drum-pedal.htm) that cost just shy of 45 (It actually cost me 60 as I paid for early delivery) has just phoned me saying that unfortunatly the one I selected isn't in stock, but they're more than happy to send me a different, more expensive one at no extra cost! I think they said that they were selling it for around 80. Naturally, I accepted. =) The network connection was bad so I couldnt quite hear what the make was, but hopefully it will be much better than the one I have right now. Result!


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