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-   -   Need help with finger technique (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109855)

Grolubao 08-30-2013 12:28 AM

Need help with finger technique
 
Hi guys,

I've been trying to develop finger technique no my left hand and so far I hit a barrier where I cannot go any further because I'm applying too much pressure on my thumb instead of allowing the other fingers to do most of the work.

I've created a video to demonstrate my problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEoJywXoiHs

As you can see, my thumb is constantly applying pressure, and I hit a barrier of 70 bpm's where I cannot go further because of this.

As more as I try to relax the thumb and not apply pressure, somehow my body just cannot do it, although on the right hand is perfectly fine.


Any tips on how to fix this? I'm currently very frustrated... In the course of the last 4 months I've spent 60 hours just doing this exercise and still it's not as I would like it to be.

My second question poses with doing finger technique only on french grip. Shouldn't I do the majority of finger technique in german/american grip since that's the grip I'll be using in the drumkit anyway? Thing is the fulcrum completely changes if I switch to german/american grip since I'll have the fulcrum on the middle finger opposed to index finger in the french grip.

Thanks in advance!

cornelius 08-30-2013 01:28 AM

Re: [DESPERATE] Need help with finger technique
 
Ok, here's how I learned/teach, and you'll hear a lot of different approaches here.

My basic grip does not change at all between French, German and American - all I do is rotate my wrists. But - when I'm using fingers in French, my grip changes - somewhat likes yours, but with my thumb not so far forward. Fulcrum is on the index finger, first joint. But to reiterate - If I'm playing wrists in French, my grip is the same as German and American, just my thumb is on top (i.e.- you can have a middle finger fulcrum in French).

IMO, working the larger muscles first by using your wrists is the first step, before getting into finger techniques. Also, in the beginning don't think about fulcrums, just hold the stick the same way for each grip - within each grip you can have a few different fulcrums, so it's a lot to take in, early on. Plus, a lot of the different fulcrums will end up happening naturally anyway, without even thinking about it.

Brian 08-30-2013 01:49 AM

Re: [DESPERATE] Need help with finger technique
 
I suggest working on opening/closing your fingers and allowing your hand to open freely, while keeping your fingers on the stick.

When doing the exercise you are doing, I generally keep all of the fingers on the stick and only the tips of the fingers (middle, ring, pinkie) are touching stick.

Stomper4x4 08-31-2013 06:39 AM

Re: Need help with finger technique
 
I noticed right away that your thumb moves a whole lot more than mine does. Does it do the same on your right hand? Also have you tried watching your right hand and then copying that, at a slower tempo maybe, with your left hand, making the exact same motions and all? That's what I had to do to iron out my finger technique with my left.

You can see Dave Weckl do it here http://youtu.be/tEuJiapUoK0?t=29m43s

My other thought is it's just that your left hand is either lacks the strength of your right, or the coordination. But either of those should have gotten better over the months you've been practicing, unless you've been practicing wrong, which does happen.

Grab your pad and play in front of a mirror, or video tape both of your hands at the same time and do your finger technique and watch...what's different between the two?

DustinB 09-01-2013 01:47 AM

Re: Need help with finger technique
 
After watching your video I clicked on this link here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFW1X95sscs

pretty much exactly how I play when I am playing faster. My wrists and hands don't really move, just the fingers (unless I'm using accents, which then I do kind of a push pull/moeller hybrid i suppose) . I have never seen anyone move there thumb so much like in your video to be honest. I wonder if there is benefits to this? My imagination is saying that speed wise you could get faster that way, but power and control would be lacking, because your not allowing the stick to bounce as much...

In JoJo Mayer's dvd he said he would hold his pointer finger to make sure it didn't move and was just relaxed. This helped me get more control. Maybe you can hold your thumb too?

After re watching the video again, I noticed I play exactly opposite to this dude. My right hand thumb arches like his but my left thumb is more flat against the stick.


Also it took me about 2 years of practicing finger control (without proper lessons) to get to where I am at today. And for a while I used to practice everyday for 2-3 hours at least. I feel I've seen almost every popular video on finger technique on youtube (until someone links me one lol, it's amazing how many there are). I also still feel I have light years of practice ahead of me.

I feel like in the past month or two i've made some decent progress by just practicing this exercise called Sanford Double Beat. http://www.snarescience.com/exercises/sanford.pdf
When you practice this, make sure all of your strokes sound even, and your hands are relaxed.

You may want to watch this video first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq-fPq3e5q8

I know it doesn't directly apply to your finger technique. But it should help you gain more wrist control.

I practice 8 on a hand and the sanford double beat everytime I sit behind the kit now (with both feet and hands).

You don't even need fingers until a certain bpm(i think individually this would differ). Like I'm pretty sure at 70 bpm I would use almost all wrist unless we're getting into sextuplets or 32nd notes. I think for straight 16th notes I would just use moeller or just a standard velocity stroke.

There is a wide range of techniques I go through as the speed increases...but finger technique is pretty much last for me. I always try to play as "lethargic" as possible. As little effort as needed. But everyone is different.

DustinB 09-01-2013 02:07 AM

Re: Need help with finger technique
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stomper4x4 (Post 1175681)
I noticed right away that your thumb moves a whole lot more than mine does. Does it do the same on your right hand? Also have you tried watching your right hand and then copying that, at a slower tempo maybe, with your left hand, making the exact same motions and all? That's what I had to do to iron out my finger technique with my left.

You can see Dave Weckl do it here http://youtu.be/tEuJiapUoK0?t=29m43s

My other thought is it's just that your left hand is either lacks the strength of your right, or the coordination. But either of those should have gotten better over the months you've been practicing, unless you've been practicing wrong, which does happen.

Grab your pad and play in front of a mirror, or video tape both of your hands at the same time and do your finger technique and watch...what's different between the two?

It's always nice hearing from a well respected drummer "it doesn't really matter which way you play, as long as it works for you, but here are some ideas to think about, and maybe reevaluate. Here's what I do."


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