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-   -   Thick single ply heads? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109410)

Dre25 08-12-2013 04:54 PM

Thick single ply heads?
 
Just wondering what a thicker single ply would sound like? Or if there are single ply heads with some sort of control/muffling?

What heads fit this description?

larryace 08-12-2013 04:59 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I have a thick head so I'm qualified to answer this lol. Evans G-12 is a 12 mil single ply head. Evans G-14 is a 14 mil single ply head. Some people like them, I didn't prefer them. But a lot of people really like them. I'd say get the G-12 first. If you like that, then maybe try the G-14.

Dre25 08-12-2013 05:23 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I have a g14 that I bought for a snare head but haven't used it yet.

I was interested in how they sound on toms.

Have come across Evans g plus in my doogle searches.

bermuda 08-12-2013 06:08 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
As always, succcessful head choice depends on the type of music, and the drum's size, edge, shell material and density. I love G14s on my touring (Keystone) toms, G12 on my local (Keystone) toms, and Strata 1000 heads (10mil) on my Legacy toms.

Bermuda

Yoshinya 08-17-2013 06:05 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 1169937)
As always, succcessful head choice depends on the type of music, and the drum's size, edge, shell material and density. I love G14s on my touring (Keystone) toms, G12 on my local (Keystone) toms, and Strata 1000 heads (10mil) on my Legacy toms.

Bermuda

Aren't those Strata 1000 heads for concert toms? Is there any difference in how they fit on the bearing edge and with the hoops?

I remember people having problems when trying the Hybrid head on kit snare drums, as they were originally designed for marching snares. I know Evans eventually came out with a modified design for standard snares and that fixed all the problems.

I'm guessing that concert toms aren't really all too different from kit toms?

GRUNTERSDAD 08-17-2013 06:36 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I had Strata on my Renowns for a bit and they fit well.

bobdadruma 08-17-2013 06:37 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I use coated Ambassador-X batters on my 60's keystone kit and also on my Club Date Se kit.
I use standard coated Ambassadors on the bottom. I like the classic warm sound with just the right amount of open tone that this combination provides.
I also use the Amb-X on my snares when I am hitting hard.

bermuda 08-17-2013 06:51 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshinya (Post 1171634)
Aren't those Strata 1000 heads for concert toms? Is there any difference in how they fit on the bearing edge and with the hoops?...
I'm guessing that concert toms aren't really all too different from kit toms?

They're standard 10mil heads (basically a G1 with a light brown coating, same vibe as Evans' "coated" bass drum heads) and they fit as any Evans head does. As to why the brown coating sounds different than the white, I don't know. I just prefer the sound & resonance on toms for light to moderate playing.

Since concert toms don't have the resonance benefit of a sealed chamber (that is, no bottom head,) batter choices are even more important. The differences between coated and clear, single or double-ply, and thickness (10, 12 or 14mil single-ply for example) are readily apparent, and also provide a wide variety of tones.

In case you weren't aware, I'm a big fan of concert toms, and offer this site for your perusal - www.concerttoms.com

Bermuda

simmsdn 08-17-2013 08:14 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre25 (Post 1169910)
Just wondering what a thicker single ply would sound like? Or if there are single ply heads with some sort of control/muffling?

What heads fit this description?

Aquarian Studio-X are a thick single ply head with a control built in. Comes in clear, clear with dot, coated, and coated with dot.

porter 08-18-2013 05:04 AM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I'll be able to tell you how they sound on toms in a few months, but on snares, they sound like two-ply heads (sort of) without the decrease in response and sustain that comes with two-ply heads. My X14 has a lot more rebound than my Ambassador, but part of that might be the feeling of a stave drum.

Birdman 08-18-2013 11:36 AM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Big fan of the thicker but single play heads(for sound - durability is just a bonus for the bashers, which I am not). There are less high frequencies in the thicker heads. Just do the tap test on unmounted heads. A single ply 10mil head will sound more "papery" than an Evans G14, and an Evans 2 ply head like a G2 will also sound less deep and w/ a shorter note. You really get the best of both worlds IMHO w/ thicker head, yet single ply.

To prove my fandom, on 14" & 16" floor tom (2007 starclassic bubinga) I run clear G14 batter over clear G14 as resos - smooth, deep tone w/ plenty of life (plenty! - even w/ diecast hoops), on the 10" and 12" rack toms, Evans clear G12's over clear G12's. Granted only 2 mils thicker than a G1 but when you combine the 2, you get the boost in less high frequencies. On the 8"(currently shipping) I will run clear G1 over clear G1. If they passed a law and I could only run one head thickness on the kit, I guess I would go w/ all G12's, but I do think the G14's could pull it off on the entire kit - they resonate well...

I also have now become a recent fan of coated G14 on snare. Really compliments the bubinga 6.5" deep snare. Adds a "thickness" or more substantial presence when hit. I have it right next to a Tama S.L.P. "Vintage Steel" w/ a coated G1. The G1 is thinner and yes, sounds "thinner" - not bad, just doesn't have the presence and "balls", if you will, of the G14. I forever thought one should generally stick w/ the classic single ply 10mil on snare drums... nope, coated G14 is now me head of choice on my snare. Snares are a unique beast in that the batter is so radically different from the reso - a G14 just adds to that contrast(desirable) and the tone of the drum. Speaking of tone of the drum, I've also recently got religion on 12 strand snares (20 is even overkill!) from Puresound. I can see now why Gavin Harrison runs a mere 8 strands!

Hope this helps on your thick single ply question. Answer: yes, even on resos!!

P.S. I also chose the GMAD (I would've bought a 14mil if they offered it - I bet they will sooner than later, eh "Evans Specialist"? It only makes sense) over the EMAD and EQ4... yep thicker, but not for durability but for sound (you can easily hear it on the evans sound samples on their site)

Birdman 08-18-2013 12:00 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 1171654)
In case you weren't aware, I'm a big fan of concert toms, and offer this site for your perusal - www.concerttoms.com

Bermuda

I perused, thank you very much, Bermuda! Interesting stuff... for this 70's kid.
I hit some of your recommended concert tom samples in my iTunes collection. Don't know what Karen Carpenter was pulling off on her drums (was it her?) on "We've Only Just Begun" but I would've guessed they're were double headed standard toms on that recording. Full(tone) and warm sounding (not a bad bank jingle from Paul Williams - as a kid I had no idea he was doing all those 70's talk shows smashed, as I saw the other day)... but I will admit, I chuckled out loud when I got to the tom fill in Cracklin' Rosie - major, major concert tom sound - semi flat and a, ummm, whappy(?) "heady" sound - just like the sound when I pulled off the bottom heads, almost immediately, off my first drum set... hence my chuckle at the audio memory.

Dre25 08-18-2013 12:17 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Wow great post, thanks Birdman (and everyone else).

I'm gonna try the Aquarians. I think they're a bit ugly but I really dig the response 2's I bought recently.

scorch whammin 08-18-2013 06:03 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman (Post 1171821)
Big fan of the thicker but single play heads(for sound - durability is just a bonus for the bashers, which I am not). There are less high frequencies in the thicker heads. Just do the tap test on unmounted heads. A single ply 10mil head will sound more "papery" than an Evans G14, and an Evans 2 ply head like a G2 will also sound less deep and w/ a shorter note. You really get the best of both worlds IMHO w/ thicker head, yet single ply.

To prove my fandom, on 14" & 16" floor tom (2007 starclassic bubinga) I run clear G14 batter over clear G14 as resos - smooth, deep tone w/ plenty of life (plenty! - even w/ diecast hoops), on the 10" and 12" rack toms, Evans clear G12's over clear G12's. Granted only 2 mils thicker than a G1 but when you combine the 2, you get the boost in less high frequencies. On the 8"(currently shipping) I will run clear G1 over clear G1. If they passed a law and I could only run one head thickness on the kit, I guess I would go w/ all G12's, but I do think the G14's could pull it off on the entire kit - they resonate well...

I also have now become a recent fan of coated G14 on snare. Really compliments the bubinga 6.5" deep snare. Adds a "thickness" or more substantial presence when hit. I have it right next to a Tama S.L.P. "Vintage Steel" w/ a coated G1. The G1 is thinner and yes, sounds "thinner" - not bad, just doesn't have the presence and "balls", if you will, of the G14. I forever thought one should generally stick w/ the classic single ply 10mil on snare drums... nope, coated G14 is now me head of choice on my snare. Snares are a unique beast in that the batter is so radically different from the reso - a G14 just adds to that contrast(desirable) and the tone of the drum. Speaking of tone of the drum, I've also recently got religion on 12 strand snares (20 is even overkill!) from Puresound. I can see now why Gavin Harrison runs a mere 8 strands!

Hope this helps on your thick single ply question. Answer: yes, even on resos!!

P.S. I also chose the GMAD (I would've bought a 14mil if they offered it - I bet they will sooner than later, eh "Evans Specialist"? It only makes sense) over the EMAD and EQ4... yep thicker, but not for durability but for sound (you can easily hear it on the evans sound samples on their site)

Great post!…and yes I agree with you on the G12's & 14's, great heads…never really thought about using them on reso side though..might have to give that a try...

EvansSpecialist 08-19-2013 02:30 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman (Post 1171821)
Big fan of the thicker but single play heads(for sound - durability is just a bonus for the bashers, which I am not). There are less high frequencies in the thicker heads. Just do the tap test on unmounted heads. A single ply 10mil head will sound more "papery" than an Evans G14, and an Evans 2 ply head like a G2 will also sound less deep and w/ a shorter note. You really get the best of both worlds IMHO w/ thicker head, yet single ply.

To prove my fandom, on 14" & 16" floor tom (2007 starclassic bubinga) I run clear G14 batter over clear G14 as resos - smooth, deep tone w/ plenty of life (plenty! - even w/ diecast hoops), on the 10" and 12" rack toms, Evans clear G12's over clear G12's. Granted only 2 mils thicker than a G1 but when you combine the 2, you get the boost in less high frequencies. On the 8"(currently shipping) I will run clear G1 over clear G1. If they passed a law and I could only run one head thickness on the kit, I guess I would go w/ all G12's, but I do think the G14's could pull it off on the entire kit - they resonate well...

I also have now become a recent fan of coated G14 on snare. Really compliments the bubinga 6.5" deep snare. Adds a "thickness" or more substantial presence when hit. I have it right next to a Tama S.L.P. "Vintage Steel" w/ a coated G1. The G1 is thinner and yes, sounds "thinner" - not bad, just doesn't have the presence and "balls", if you will, of the G14. I forever thought one should generally stick w/ the classic single ply 10mil on snare drums... nope, coated G14 is now me head of choice on my snare. Snares are a unique beast in that the batter is so radically different from the reso - a G14 just adds to that contrast(desirable) and the tone of the drum. Speaking of tone of the drum, I've also recently got religion on 12 strand snares (20 is even overkill!) from Puresound. I can see now why Gavin Harrison runs a mere 8 strands!

Hope this helps on your thick single ply question. Answer: yes, even on resos!!

P.S. I also chose the GMAD (I would've bought a 14mil if they offered it - I bet they will sooner than later, eh "Evans Specialist"? It only makes sense) over the EMAD and EQ4... yep thicker, but not for durability but for sound (you can easily hear it on the evans sound samples on their site)

Great choices all around! I happen to be a big fan of the balanced set concept as well. It's really the same idea as varied thickness for guitar strings (thicker medium for lower frequencies, thinner for higher).

The thought of a 14mil EMAD has crossed my mind...

longgun 08-19-2013 06:45 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I've been using the Evans G14 coated heads over G1 clears on my toms and they sound great IMO.

Personally, I didn't care for the G14 on my snare...............too much ring and crazy overtones that I couldn't tune out. But the toms sing perfectly.

Birdman 08-19-2013 07:27 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist (Post 1172101)
Great choices all around! I happen to be a big fan of the balanced set concept as well. It's really the same idea as varied thickness for guitar strings (thicker medium for lower frequencies, thinner for higher).

Ahhh, well put.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvansSpecialist (Post 1172101)
The thought of a 14mil EMAD has crossed my mind...

And don't forget the reso at 14 mil too = subwoofer depth! Death to 7 mil bass reso heads! ;)

Yoshinya 08-25-2013 10:30 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman (Post 1171821)
I also have now become a recent fan of coated G14 on snare. Really compliments the bubinga 6.5" deep snare. Adds a "thickness" or more substantial presence when hit. I have it right next to a Tama S.L.P. "Vintage Steel" w/ a coated G1. The G1 is thinner and yes, sounds "thinner" - not bad, just doesn't have the presence and "balls", if you will, of the G14. I forever thought one should generally stick w/ the classic single ply 10mil on snare drums... nope, coated G14 is now me head of choice on my snare. Snares are a unique beast in that the batter is so radically different from the reso - a G14 just adds to that contrast(desirable) and the tone of the drum.

Amen to that! I put a G14 coated on my Tama Starclassic Maple 5.5" x 14" snare for the recording of my band's first EP and felt like I finally have found the batter that that particular drum likes best. It just seems to pull the most body out of it, while not killing the duration of the note, like a 2-ply would.

I really enjoy an ST or G2 coated or on most of my other 14" snares (except for my Ludwig Epic "Brick"), but I suspect I'll be slowly switching all of those over to G14s, eventually.

Birdman 08-25-2013 11:51 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshinya (Post 1174115)
It just seems to pull the most body out of it, while not killing the duration of the note, like a 2-ply would.

+1. Well said - I couldn't agree more...

Yoshinya 08-31-2013 10:02 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman (Post 1172222)
]
And don't forget the reso at 14 mil too = subwoofer depth! Death to 7 mil bass reso heads! ;)

Has there ever been an official reason as to why Evans generally doesn't do anything thicker than a 7mil bass reso head? I mean, I know one could just take a batter head and slap it on the reso side, but it would be nice to be able to get something that's got a pre-cut microphone hole (like the EQ3 resonant black) in it that's a little thicker. Options are good!

Dre25 09-07-2013 09:19 AM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
No one has mentioned the EC1 but I just picked up some of these for half price, I think the guy said they'd been discontinued? They're a 14 mil single ply but with that silver control ring.

Got a mish mash of heads because I got them from the bargain bin so that's a bit of a mess but they're all thick single plys.

Not that anyone's going to care but I got
an 8" g14
10 and 12" g plus'
14 and 16 ec1's

porter 09-08-2013 04:58 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I actually went ahead and picked up clear G14s for my 12" and 14" toms (clear ambassador on resonant side) the other day- they are quite something! I didn't notice a drastic change in sustain from the coated 2-plies (super-2s and white suede emperors) I used to use, which I attribute to the shells and die-cast hoops, but the G14s have a lot more body and WAY more low-end. They tune quite nicely. One thing I noticed is that it was hard to get a good sound with my resonant head higher than the batter like I usually do- with these, I tuned both heads to the same pitch and it seems to work better than what I used to do. They react a bit slower than what I'm used to, but they are really good. For my stave kit, I will get a G1, G12, and G14 for the batters and Genera Resos and a G12 for the resonant heads. I will definitely talk about that when it comes, but for now- the G14s are my favorite.

Only complaint is that, these being the first clear or single ply tom batters I've used, I'm suddenly missing the fun of using brushes on toms :(

Dre25 09-08-2013 05:09 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Cool. Also wanted to add that I tried a g14 on my black beauty and I took it straight off, too much ring, loss in sensitivity.. Back to a g1/Amb for me.

AudioWonderland 09-08-2013 07:44 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
I don't care for the thicker single ply heads. It feels like hitting concrete or steel. Way too stiff. It may be because I prefer my drums tuned into the higher ranges but they just don;t work for me

larryace 09-08-2013 08:15 PM

Re: Thick single ply heads?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland (Post 1178396)
I don't care for the thicker single ply heads. It feels like hitting concrete or steel. Way too stiff. It may be because I prefer my drums tuned into the higher ranges but they just don;t work for me

Same here. When I first experimented with thicker single ply heads, I was like finally, someone thought to do this. They should sustain longer and sound deeper. There would be minimal losses compared with a 2 ply head. Which is all true. But straight away, bottom line, I didn't like the particular set of frequencies they made. To my ear hey were a very middy low end that kind of dominated. I liked them better as a reso, but even after a while, I grew tired of the mid low flavor it added even as a reso, and went back to a 10 mil head. I felt I got a more balanced set of frequencies overall from the 10 mil head. I would like to hear a 9 or a 9.5 mil head next, and go in that direction. 7 mil heads I know are way too thin for me. Next they need to experiment with a graduated single ply head. Thicker in the middle and gradually getting thinner towards the edges. Or the reverse. That would be interesting.


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